Damillio

Some of you read my last attempt at proposing and English argument and I reconsidered my idea. It still has to do with cars, but a different aspect. It will deal with MPG instead.
Basic points:

1. MPG can be improved by changing the car, the engine, or both. Basically, better MPG does not require a more fuel-efficient engine and hence less power. Proof - the Z06

2. Changeing the car (design) does not have to affect safety. Proof- new carbon fibers, stronger plastics, a 4000lb full steel frame sedan was actually deemed less safe than a Taurus.

3. I could also throw in some points concerning alternative fuels and Flex-fuel, but is there anyway to still proof gas-engine superiority? Basically I need negatives for hydrogen burning or electric cars.



Whatcha think? I know some of it has been done before, but not necessarily from the standpoint of aerodynamics vs a less powerful engine.

Leave some feedback, thanks!

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

Displacment on Demand

jpat1023

Having a more fuel-efficient engine does not mean less power. Actually it means more power. Think of a 427 from the early 70's compared to the new 427 in the Z06. The new one is more fuel-efficient, therefore the motor makes more power with same same amount of cubic inches. ...not to mention the better gas mileage.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

not neccessairly. the reason the older 427 didnt make as much hp as the GENIV is because the design is better. which is the same reason its more fuel efficient. the heads flow better, the cam evacs the cylnders better.......the list goes on. the fact is its more efficient in general, not just fuel efficient. it makes better use of the power.

jpat1023

haha thanks....I could have gone into all that, but the point it is, the newer engine is more fuel effecient. Of course, the heads flow better, the cam evacuates the cylinders better, it is fuel injected, etc. etc., but that is why the newer engine is more fuel effecient.

What part of my post did you say "not necessarily" to? B/c you said that, and then all you did was explain why my post was correct. Usually "not necessarily" implies that you have something that will contradict what I have said.

JohnnyC

Electric cars do not help pollution because you still have to plug them in every night. This means that the power plants would just have to burn more fossil fuels to pick up the extra load of everyone plugging thier cars in.

Hydrogen cars are not yet practical either; The problem is where do you get the hydrogen. Hydrogen is not a stable gas and will react to form different compounds in its natural state (often water). It takes energy, such as electricity, to separate the hydrogen from the water. This electricity, of course, must come from the power plants which then must burn more fossil fuels to meet demand.

Another option is bio-fuels, such as ethanol. A small portion of the fuel supply can be provided by this renewable resourse, but there simply isn't enough farm land available to completely replace petroleum-based gasoline with bio-fuels.

Bottom line: we will be burning gasoline for quite sometime into the future.

Just a few ideas for your paper-good luck!

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

The part where you said that the engine is more fuel efficient, therefore it makes more power.

StoleIt

iTrader: (3)

Yea I agree with Bww. Just because the engine is more fuel efficient doesn't mean that is why it makes more power. It just happens to make more power because of better efficiencies else where, one of which happens to coincidentally be fuel efficiency. Look at top alcohol race cars, they aren't fuel efficient at all, but they make a ton of power. So you can't argue that because the engine is fuel efficient that is why it makes more power.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

13 Gallons of CH3NO2 in a 1/4 mile run.

JohnnyC

Agreed. The new LS7 makes a ton of power, but the fact that it is good on gas is due to a number of factors. Some of these include better fuel injection, ignition, head and cam design that provide good volumetric efficiency, and intelligent gearing. Once an engine's volumetric efficiency is maximized, the limiting factor to making power is usually related to the engine needing more fuel. Most unlimited racing engines make big power by dumping alot of fuel into an engine that can flow enough air to turn all of that fuel into big power.

jpat1023

Agreed. I guess my only point was that a lot of the time a car will make more power when it can use fuel more efficiently. I realize this is not the only factor to making power and is sometimes not the case at all.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

no its not making more power, its taking better advantage of the power potential the fuel has. that power is already there. each engine setup has a power peak. the amount of power it can make and no more given perfect conditions. the more efficient an engine becomes by way of better flowing heads or whatever, means it can extract a greater amount of energy from a smaller amount of fuel. not that it uses less fuel meaning that it makes more power. using that logic a hybrid honda should be making 400 hp. the more efficient an engine is, the better it makes use of the power that is already existant in the air/fuel mix.

jpat1023

I think you are misreading what I am saying, or I am mistyping what I am trying to say.
You know that this is the same thing as what I said...by "taking better advantage of the power potential the fuel has" it has better fuel efficiency.
"extract a greater amount of energy from a smaller amount of fuel" = Fuel Efficiency, which is all I'm trying to say
I never said nor implied that. All I ment by fuel efficiency is the fact that it makes better use of the fuel on hand therefore makes more power.
Again, I agree, b/c that is what I'm saying...

DarkblueTA

Electric. Batteries are not able to hold a charge for a cross country trip much less to the next state and back(NE states maybe the only exceptions). Plus what do you do with the batteries after they no longer work. Plug in cars. That's fine but ifyou think our countries grids could handle even 1/4 of the people on the grid charging their cars. We have a hard time keeping it up in the summer months already (depending on your area).

Hydrogen. See electric, lack of refilling stations and cost to power your car vs oil

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

just so long as were on the same page.
same page, different book.

jpat1023

haha that works!