Factory Shortcomings...
06-24-2008, 05:28 PM
#21
06-24-2008, 05:35 PM
#22
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I started the thead because I can't exactly put my finger on why I love my truck after it's let me down recently and my car will need serious upgrades for the power that I'm planning but I wouldn't get rid of it either.
The truck had the tranny crap (factory sunshells are weak and planetary gears aren't any better) and the paper mache' Eaton locker ate itself. Now I've seen 7.5 inch 10 bolts grenade on street tires and can envision myself buying a 9 inch out of necessity.
My wife owns an 05 Honda Accord and it is the most vanilla car that you can buy. I won't trade my vehicles for anything that isn't enjoyable to drive and would rather get 15mpg local in my truck then 20 local in the wife's car.
I mentioned the Honda owner because we trade barbs and it's good ammo for him when he sees my truck broken down or watches a Z28 grenade its rear at MIR. I just tell him that his car smoked before the turbo and after the turbo so at least it's consistant.
Just trying to see why we're loyal to our cars and trucks despite obvious shortcomings.
The truck had the tranny crap (factory sunshells are weak and planetary gears aren't any better) and the paper mache' Eaton locker ate itself. Now I've seen 7.5 inch 10 bolts grenade on street tires and can envision myself buying a 9 inch out of necessity.
My wife owns an 05 Honda Accord and it is the most vanilla car that you can buy. I won't trade my vehicles for anything that isn't enjoyable to drive and would rather get 15mpg local in my truck then 20 local in the wife's car.
I mentioned the Honda owner because we trade barbs and it's good ammo for him when he sees my truck broken down or watches a Z28 grenade its rear at MIR. I just tell him that his car smoked before the turbo and after the turbo so at least it's consistant.
Just trying to see why we're loyal to our cars and trucks despite obvious shortcomings.
06-24-2008, 05:41 PM
#23
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Than you're wrong, it's not a claim, it's a fact.
On topic, these "shortcomings" aren't really shortcomings. Shocks that aren't good enough for the handling enthusiast is not a shortcoming from the factory, they perform just like a factory street car should. The 10-bolt isn't great for launching at the track, but it isn't a shortcoming because for a street driven car is is very adequate. Just because things aren't perfect for what we do with them doesn't make it a shortcoming. Heck if it came with perfect springs for the handling enthusiast, I could consider that a shortcoming because they would suck for the drag strip.
On topic, these "shortcomings" aren't really shortcomings. Shocks that aren't good enough for the handling enthusiast is not a shortcoming from the factory, they perform just like a factory street car should. The 10-bolt isn't great for launching at the track, but it isn't a shortcoming because for a street driven car is is very adequate. Just because things aren't perfect for what we do with them doesn't make it a shortcoming. Heck if it came with perfect springs for the handling enthusiast, I could consider that a shortcoming because they would suck for the drag strip.
agree 100% with the second part
but you are just claiming it with no real facts, 30+ mpg is really good I have never gotten that but I mostly do city. Still havent seen close to that
06-24-2008, 05:49 PM
#24
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I considered the things that I brought up shortcomings because I stopped by to get my truck from getting the tranny fixed and the owner of the shop had 4L60 and 4L80 carcasses that suffered worse fates than mine. And the vehicles ranged from Elderly driven 2wd Silverados to beaten upon F-bodies. The trannies have known weak points that have failed in different vehicles under different circumstances.
Likewise, the guy at Randy's Ring and Pinion said that the G80 Eaton Locker is nicknamed the "Generic 80" and has a pretty big failure rate. The number of busted lockers at the local auto wrecker confirms this. Type in Eaton G80 failure or something close to that in a search and you'll have a good read.
Likewise, the guy at Randy's Ring and Pinion said that the G80 Eaton Locker is nicknamed the "Generic 80" and has a pretty big failure rate. The number of busted lockers at the local auto wrecker confirms this. Type in Eaton G80 failure or something close to that in a search and you'll have a good read.
Last edited by JosephIV; 06-24-2008 at 05:50 PM. Reason: deleted quote
06-24-2008, 06:00 PM
#26
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I considered the things that I brought up shortcomings because I stopped by to get my truck from getting the tranny fixed and the owner of the shop had 4L60 and 4L80 carcasses that suffered worse fates than mine. And the vehicles ranged from Elderly driven 2wd Silverados to beaten upon F-bodies. The trannies have known weak points that have failed in different vehicles under different circumstances.
Likewise, the guy at Randy's Ring and Pinion said that the G80 Eaton Locker is nicknamed the "Generic 80" and has a pretty big failure rate. The number of busted lockers at the local auto wrecker confirms this. Type in Eaton G80 failure or something close to that in a search and you'll have a good read.
Likewise, the guy at Randy's Ring and Pinion said that the G80 Eaton Locker is nicknamed the "Generic 80" and has a pretty big failure rate. The number of busted lockers at the local auto wrecker confirms this. Type in Eaton G80 failure or something close to that in a search and you'll have a good read.
06-24-2008, 06:04 PM
#27
Just like I said the first time, it's not a claim, it's a fact. I had a 6-speed that got 32 on the highway and an auto that got 26.
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06-24-2008, 06:09 PM
#28
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They suck for street driving, too much compression (see jarring ride creating rattles) and not enough rebound (floaty, disconnected feel). They belong on an old buick, not a performance car. With good shocks (like the Koni DA's that came on the 1LE cars) the car rides dramatically better(think BMW) and handles in a whole different league. Our cars fishtail and get squirly stock because of the lack of shock control. Our cars stock generally ride rough because of lack of shock control.
Heck if it came with perfect springs for the handling enthusiast, I could consider that a shortcoming because they would suck for the drag strip.
......TURBO HONDA's................................
06-24-2008, 06:55 PM
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The aforementioned mileage claims aren't off base. My aunt has a 98 FRC C5 and averaged 28mpg from Harrisburg, PA to the Bowling Green 'Vette plant. I haven't driven long distance but see that 6th gear turns low RPM at 65mph.
06-24-2008, 07:15 PM
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okay, but if you get on it once your gas millage is gone where as with that honda you will always get 30+ mpg, unless you are literally always on the gas. You guys should all know this. A eg civic with a k20 swap is not a bad idea for a dd.
In my case I dont really need a dd we have a shop and all carpool in a geo(43 mpg average) so we dont spend much in gas.
In my case I dont really need a dd we have a shop and all carpool in a geo(43 mpg average) so we dont spend much in gas.
06-24-2008, 08:15 PM
#33
^ Just because you dont get that kind of mileage doesnt mean it cant be done. I get 20 mpgs on the dot with a 50/50 mix of city and highway. All highway, no prob getting 27-28 mpgs. Thats after mods and putting down 375 to the wheels. Also, i cant ride for three hours and not get into it once or twice. My mileage still stays 25 +
06-24-2008, 08:59 PM
#34
My A4 gets 30 on the highway. You can't expect to get that if you are driving in the city, thats a no brainer, but on the interstate it is a fact. Even on the dealer sticker it says 19 city 28 hwy, EPA indicates that the majority of these vehicles with this rating WILL achieve between 16 and 22 city, 23 and 33 hwy.
06-24-2008, 11:42 PM
#35
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Hmmmm...
My only real complaints about the F-bodies are the crummy power window motors, and the 7.5. Although adequate for the street, they're not really built for abuse. The LSX motors are incredible factory mills and our transmissions aren't too bad. Like it's been said, they all have their drawbacks. Hell, I'm willing to bet my ten year old, $6,250 Z28 will run more reliably and care free than a brand new, $200,000 Ferrari.
The old 87-92 Foxbodies had stout 8.8s, double rollers, and forged internals with less than 200rwhp on tap. That's nice over engineering , but they also carried a floppy chassis, drum rears, and sluggish transmissions snatched out of the truck parts bin. Every car and truck could use a little more than what the factory gives us, which is what makes them so damn cool.
We get to improve and modify
Speaking of gas guzzlin', I average about 20mpg. That's mostly city with an occasional jaunt down the e-way, and giving her just enough hell to bring a grin every now and then.
My only real complaints about the F-bodies are the crummy power window motors, and the 7.5. Although adequate for the street, they're not really built for abuse. The LSX motors are incredible factory mills and our transmissions aren't too bad. Like it's been said, they all have their drawbacks. Hell, I'm willing to bet my ten year old, $6,250 Z28 will run more reliably and care free than a brand new, $200,000 Ferrari.
The old 87-92 Foxbodies had stout 8.8s, double rollers, and forged internals with less than 200rwhp on tap. That's nice over engineering , but they also carried a floppy chassis, drum rears, and sluggish transmissions snatched out of the truck parts bin. Every car and truck could use a little more than what the factory gives us, which is what makes them so damn cool.
We get to improve and modify
Speaking of gas guzzlin', I average about 20mpg. That's mostly city with an occasional jaunt down the e-way, and giving her just enough hell to bring a grin every now and then.
06-25-2008, 01:16 PM
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^ Just because you dont get that kind of mileage doesnt mean it cant be done. I get 20 mpgs on the dot with a 50/50 mix of city and highway. All highway, no prob getting 27-28 mpgs. Thats after mods and putting down 375 to the wheels. Also, i cant ride for three hours and not get into it once or twice. My mileage still stays 25 +
I have been looking at the honda forums lately and the lowest mpg I found was 28. The highest I saw was 45mpg but it was fully tuned and thats driven super conservative. The average I saw was 35, with city/highway.
06-25-2008, 01:29 PM
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I agree now, I have noticed ALOT of people saying they get similar mpg out of there cars BUT what I was saying is you can get better gas mileage out of that honda with the right set up and have a car thats almost as fast and more versatile.
I have been looking at the honda forums lately and the lowest mpg I found was 28. The highest I saw was 45mpg but it was fully tuned and thats driven super conservative. The average I saw was 35, with city/highway.
I have been looking at the honda forums lately and the lowest mpg I found was 28. The highest I saw was 45mpg but it was fully tuned and thats driven super conservative. The average I saw was 35, with city/highway.
what set up did you have with that civic?
I am by no means a civic fan but if you put a stock k20 in an eg hatch, you will get way better gas mileage than an ls1 and still get mid 13, you might get "30 plus" mpg but thats driving SUPER SUPER conservative, I personally dont believe when people say they get this incredible gas millage out of a f-body or vette.
I am by no means a civic fan but if you put a stock k20 in an eg hatch, you will get way better gas mileage than an ls1 and still get mid 13, you might get "30 plus" mpg but thats driving SUPER SUPER conservative, I personally dont believe when people say they get this incredible gas millage out of a f-body or vette.
06-25-2008, 01:35 PM
#38
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show me a honda civic with a factory motor that even gets close 10s or even 11s, hell make it 12s that then we will talk about them being as fast much less their gas milage at that point.
06-25-2008, 01:48 PM
#39
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I get 22 mpg city/fwy
with a 3.73 gear and A4.
Last time I went up north I got 26.6
My old 98 ls1 a4 stock gears got 28 on the highway.
M6 LS1 w/ stock gear = 30+mpg hwy
with a 3.73 gear and A4.
Last time I went up north I got 26.6
My old 98 ls1 a4 stock gears got 28 on the highway.
M6 LS1 w/ stock gear = 30+mpg hwy
06-25-2008, 02:07 PM
#40
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Nosir, what you were saying was
Don't change your story because you're wrong. Go back to your Honda forum if you want to tout the Honda as being so spectacular. You don't really expect us to care around here do you? Stop with your Honda ****. If the lowest you found was 28 you are not paying attention.
Don't change your story because you're wrong. Go back to your Honda forum if you want to tout the Honda as being so spectacular. You don't really expect us to care around here do you? Stop with your Honda ****. If the lowest you found was 28 you are not paying attention.
The point is all cars have some drawbacks. Stock for stock, and modded for modded, LS1>any Honduh. We have a better platform to build on, our cars dont sound like pissed off weedwackers, and we get damn good gas mileage even modded. But considering some factors and ones i have listed above, a couple miles per gallon, or a better overall vehicle??
What honduh's do on boost, we can do NA and be twice as reliable while doing it. Put that in your japanese pipe and smoke it.
