Car shuts off while driving.
08-24-2011, 08:05 AM
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Car shuts off while driving. (I think this may be general so im posting it here, feel free to delete either thread mods)
For awhile I had a problem with when I would stop, clutch out, anything that had to do with the RPMs dropping to idle, it would hang at 1000-1300 RPM and would then drop to normal. I could also feel, as I was driving around, that I had a slight vacuum leak as the car would drive its self at times. (Cruising in 2nd gear in the neighborhood, instead of a nice engine brake coming up to the stop signs, the car acts like im still resting my foot on the accelerator giving just a hint of gas.)
After trying my ac/heater controls one day I noticed that only the defrost worked, so I checked the manifold and low and behold the AC vacuum source was unplugged. Plugged it back in and test drove it around the block, felt better than it had in awhile.
Next day, after driving it about 15 miles, it starts high idling again when I pull up to stop signs and lights. I started checking all vacuum, and could not find a culprit. I even plugged the PCV lines to the manifold just to make sure and still high idle.
I didn't think much of it, I thought maybe I needed to reset the battery and let it relearn. I did check the throttle position screw, it was marked by the previous owner and is in its correct spot. (Thank god lol)
Last Saturday I had to drive 26~ miles to and back, toget some E85 that I mix with the crappy 91 around here. Well, on the way back after no issues, the car acts like I turned the key off and shuts off. Then comes back on and I cruise fine for a few minutes when it does it again. I pulled over and checked everything about the car and it seemed fine and everything was how it was before I left. Checked for burnt wires, burnt smell or smoke and nothing.
Got home, but it died one more time as I was turning onto my street
Did some searching on here and a few people mention the grounds, so I have checked: The 2 going to the Passenger side behind the battery. The one in front of the battery on the radiator support and the one directly on the opposite side of the car of this one. The Fuse box. The ground under the fuse box.
Now heres a problem I still need to confirm, I can tell that the top ground on the driver side head is fine as I can feel the bolt and the wires coming from the O ring. However, when I feel the below bolt I almost do not feel any ground wires, but yet I feel the o-ring around the bolt. I will still confirm this information, but if it is possibly these grounds, wouldn't the car have not started? Or at least something else because the PCM isn't grounded?
I saw another thread where someone said it was the ignition relay. So I swapped the starter relay with the ignition relay and all was fine yesterday, but today while driving home from a friends after work, it died on me 3 times within 2 blocks.
Could this be a Crank Position Sensor problem instead of a ground problem? Or is the high-idle apart of the ground problem? Maybe this should go in electrical.. I don't know.. I am at a loss right now.
For awhile I had a problem with when I would stop, clutch out, anything that had to do with the RPMs dropping to idle, it would hang at 1000-1300 RPM and would then drop to normal. I could also feel, as I was driving around, that I had a slight vacuum leak as the car would drive its self at times. (Cruising in 2nd gear in the neighborhood, instead of a nice engine brake coming up to the stop signs, the car acts like im still resting my foot on the accelerator giving just a hint of gas.)
After trying my ac/heater controls one day I noticed that only the defrost worked, so I checked the manifold and low and behold the AC vacuum source was unplugged. Plugged it back in and test drove it around the block, felt better than it had in awhile.
Next day, after driving it about 15 miles, it starts high idling again when I pull up to stop signs and lights. I started checking all vacuum, and could not find a culprit. I even plugged the PCV lines to the manifold just to make sure and still high idle.
I didn't think much of it, I thought maybe I needed to reset the battery and let it relearn. I did check the throttle position screw, it was marked by the previous owner and is in its correct spot. (Thank god lol)
Last Saturday I had to drive 26~ miles to and back, toget some E85 that I mix with the crappy 91 around here. Well, on the way back after no issues, the car acts like I turned the key off and shuts off. Then comes back on and I cruise fine for a few minutes when it does it again. I pulled over and checked everything about the car and it seemed fine and everything was how it was before I left. Checked for burnt wires, burnt smell or smoke and nothing.
Got home, but it died one more time as I was turning onto my street
Did some searching on here and a few people mention the grounds, so I have checked: The 2 going to the Passenger side behind the battery. The one in front of the battery on the radiator support and the one directly on the opposite side of the car of this one. The Fuse box. The ground under the fuse box.
Now heres a problem I still need to confirm, I can tell that the top ground on the driver side head is fine as I can feel the bolt and the wires coming from the O ring. However, when I feel the below bolt I almost do not feel any ground wires, but yet I feel the o-ring around the bolt. I will still confirm this information, but if it is possibly these grounds, wouldn't the car have not started? Or at least something else because the PCM isn't grounded?
I saw another thread where someone said it was the ignition relay. So I swapped the starter relay with the ignition relay and all was fine yesterday, but today while driving home from a friends after work, it died on me 3 times within 2 blocks.
Could this be a Crank Position Sensor problem instead of a ground problem? Or is the high-idle apart of the ground problem? Maybe this should go in electrical.. I don't know.. I am at a loss right now.
Last edited by Parasoth; 08-24-2011 at 11:12 PM.
08-24-2011, 10:01 PM
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So testing it tonight, when I turn the key to the accessory position to get the gauge to come on, theres a series of clicks coming from my fuse box. When turn the key back to off, its like there is a grinding sound near my Throttle Body. (Weird I know, but the sound is coming from the middle of the bay near the front. Is there a ground somewhere here I missed?)
Doing more research I happened upon this thread https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...not-start.html which provided this link..
http://shbox.com/ignsw/ign_switch_repl.html
Which states at the top..
Could this be my problem? The Ignition switch is possibly bad?
Doing more research I happened upon this thread https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...not-start.html which provided this link..
http://shbox.com/ignsw/ign_switch_repl.html
Which states at the top..
he most noted and tell-tale symptom I have seen regarding switch failure is that the the gauge cluster goes dead. When it goes dead, the engine dies as well. This is because the ignition switch also powers a section of the pcm necessary for engine function, plus the fuel pump and some other things.
08-31-2011, 08:30 PM
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Well I got the car all buttoned up on Monday day after a few slight dumb problems.
Drove to work Tuesday with no problems(3m~), came home for lunch and went back (total of 7 miles in an hour in this timeframe) and when I got off work and was coming home, it started shutting off again as I got near my house.. I was able to keep it going (buckingly I might add) if I gave it gas but as soon as I had to brake to turn onto my street it died.. usually it starts right back up after a little bit but this time it did not and I coasted 3 houses down to mine and was able to pull into the driveway.. woo.
More research I pulled this thread up.
http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=865229
The car did restart right away, but I shook every single wire I could and nothing happened.
Could my problem still be the relays? Could the ignition switch have been the original problem, fried the relay, then when I switched to the starter relay it fried it too? The weird thing is if the ignition relay was fried to begin with, then swapped with the starter relay, wouldn't the car hard start? I think I've had one hard start, but it could have been me prematurely letting the key go because that's what it felt like.
Im stumped guys. I still haven't been able to check the ground wires on the bottom bolt on the back of the head, I gotta wait for the car to cool down. I still think there would be more issues if this wasn't connected but I could be wrong.
Could anyone chime in?
Drove to work Tuesday with no problems(3m~), came home for lunch and went back (total of 7 miles in an hour in this timeframe) and when I got off work and was coming home, it started shutting off again as I got near my house.. I was able to keep it going (buckingly I might add) if I gave it gas but as soon as I had to brake to turn onto my street it died.. usually it starts right back up after a little bit but this time it did not and I coasted 3 houses down to mine and was able to pull into the driveway.. woo.
More research I pulled this thread up.
Frustrated I got home, with the car running, started pulling sensors, shaking wires and what not, I got to the group of wires at the computer in the picture in the flexloom and as soon as I shook them, the car shut off.
Cranked the car back up, shook them again, the car shut off. Did this 5 times with various stutters and what not.
BINGO!!
Pulled the front pass tire, pulled the wheel well, disconnected the harnesses and cut the wires needed to cut, replaced everything over the wheel well (undid the hidden wire mod), hooked everything back up and could not make the issue happen again no matter how I shook the wires.
I have driven about 60 miles with no issues so far! I don't think I will bother redoing that mod since I don't really do car shows with the car anymore. Just isn't worth the hassel of potential problems.
Cranked the car back up, shook them again, the car shut off. Did this 5 times with various stutters and what not.
BINGO!!
Pulled the front pass tire, pulled the wheel well, disconnected the harnesses and cut the wires needed to cut, replaced everything over the wheel well (undid the hidden wire mod), hooked everything back up and could not make the issue happen again no matter how I shook the wires.
I have driven about 60 miles with no issues so far! I don't think I will bother redoing that mod since I don't really do car shows with the car anymore. Just isn't worth the hassel of potential problems.
http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=865229
The car did restart right away, but I shook every single wire I could and nothing happened.
Could my problem still be the relays? Could the ignition switch have been the original problem, fried the relay, then when I switched to the starter relay it fried it too? The weird thing is if the ignition relay was fried to begin with, then swapped with the starter relay, wouldn't the car hard start? I think I've had one hard start, but it could have been me prematurely letting the key go because that's what it felt like.
Im stumped guys. I still haven't been able to check the ground wires on the bottom bolt on the back of the head, I gotta wait for the car to cool down. I still think there would be more issues if this wasn't connected but I could be wrong.
Could anyone chime in?
09-01-2011, 05:41 PM
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you seem pretty lonely man. i would check the crank and cam sensors if it were me. im not sure how to do it on an 8. I've just learned how to ignition test with my v6(gimme a break, im only 18) no codes are showing right? that was a hella bunch to read, cant remember all the facts i read
09-01-2011, 05:55 PM
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I didn't drive the car today, im gonna head out in a little bit and finally check the ground on the head.
No codes are showing, however I wonder if I might be getting a code right before it dies.. and then because the problem isn't occurring when I turn the car back on, its off. And that would more than likely be the dreaded P0601... I will be taking it to AZ either tomorrow or Saturday and see if any codes are pulled.
No codes are showing, however I wonder if I might be getting a code right before it dies.. and then because the problem isn't occurring when I turn the car back on, its off. And that would more than likely be the dreaded P0601... I will be taking it to AZ either tomorrow or Saturday and see if any codes are pulled.
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09-01-2011, 06:53 PM
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I wouldn't think it would be something to do with the starter. I mean, if your car is already started, no reason the starter would turn it off. I guess if somehow the switch falls out of the running position while driving, that could turn it off, but there's the button you have to press in to get it to turn, so I don't see how that would happen.
My car idles at ~900, which seems high to me, so maybe the slightly higher idle is not that much out of the norm. Maybe something to try tuning to see if you can get the computer to slow down the idle.
Just wondering, when does the engine turn off? When stopped or moving? Any trends on the speed it turns off at?
My car idles at ~900, which seems high to me, so maybe the slightly higher idle is not that much out of the norm. Maybe something to try tuning to see if you can get the computer to slow down the idle.
Just wondering, when does the engine turn off? When stopped or moving? Any trends on the speed it turns off at?
09-01-2011, 07:14 PM
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No, nothing with the starter. Everything is fine there, car cranks and starts on the first go. However there is a relay, the same size as the ignition relay. You can use this relay to test if your ignition relay is bad by swapping them over which is what I did, which is where my theory of "if the ignition relay was bad in the first place, and since I now have switched the relays and have not switched them back, wouldn't a faulty starter relay cause a hard start situation? Or does it only get so bad that it causes a no start situation?"
The relay I switched over from the starter position to the ignition position could have gotten overloaded (Like the one I switched out of the ignition relay position to the starter position possibly did) if my ignition switch was actually the culprit before I had time to change the ignition switch.
My car has a Frost Tune. It also does idle at 750~ which is where it should be, but only after coming to a stop after 10~ seconds or so. And when I clutch out, it will shoot up then come back down. I think this is apart of a vacuum leak, but I think my TPS is apart of the factor as well after reading up on some more symptoms like mine. You might check your idle screw, clean your IAC or check the TPS if you somehow can.
It's turned off on me at 70, 25, and 10 MPH. Never idling in the driveway, I have to actually get it going for it to do it. Even then it can be a day before it happens. (See above posts.) No real pattern, its like something overheats and shuts the car off.
The relay I switched over from the starter position to the ignition position could have gotten overloaded (Like the one I switched out of the ignition relay position to the starter position possibly did) if my ignition switch was actually the culprit before I had time to change the ignition switch.
My car has a Frost Tune. It also does idle at 750~ which is where it should be, but only after coming to a stop after 10~ seconds or so. And when I clutch out, it will shoot up then come back down. I think this is apart of a vacuum leak, but I think my TPS is apart of the factor as well after reading up on some more symptoms like mine. You might check your idle screw, clean your IAC or check the TPS if you somehow can.
It's turned off on me at 70, 25, and 10 MPH. Never idling in the driveway, I have to actually get it going for it to do it. Even then it can be a day before it happens. (See above posts.) No real pattern, its like something overheats and shuts the car off.
09-01-2011, 11:45 PM
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So here comes the near final updates
Found the vacuum leak. After reading some threads about a 90MM intake (lol don't ask, looking up mods while my car is down.) I saw someone talking about the vacuum canister in the passenger side. I went outside just a little bit ago and found the line that runs a long the ECM wires/connectors to the pump.. but I didn't see a line coming out where the headlight wires come out of the harness. So I take the battery out and undo the harness to find the vacuum line has been broken in half right where it was all taped together. Yay.
Now.. the real conclusion to the story. I feel really retarded.
After I found the line and concluded I would need to wait for tomorrow to fix it, I closed the garage and shut the hood.. then I had a sudden urge and opened the garage back up, grabbed my light and reached behind the head. This time I felt around for loose wires, and low and behold.. the third ground which goes to the bottom bolt, the one I could not feel the wires around was rather loose.. as in.. I pulled it up and was able to look at the end where it had been pulled off the O connector. So there's the problem. I need to reattach an O-connector to the ground and rebolt it to the head. I'm so glad pay day is tomorrow.
Found the vacuum leak. After reading some threads about a 90MM intake (lol don't ask, looking up mods while my car is down.) I saw someone talking about the vacuum canister in the passenger side. I went outside just a little bit ago and found the line that runs a long the ECM wires/connectors to the pump.. but I didn't see a line coming out where the headlight wires come out of the harness. So I take the battery out and undo the harness to find the vacuum line has been broken in half right where it was all taped together. Yay.
Now.. the real conclusion to the story. I feel really retarded.
After I found the line and concluded I would need to wait for tomorrow to fix it, I closed the garage and shut the hood.. then I had a sudden urge and opened the garage back up, grabbed my light and reached behind the head. This time I felt around for loose wires, and low and behold.. the third ground which goes to the bottom bolt, the one I could not feel the wires around was rather loose.. as in.. I pulled it up and was able to look at the end where it had been pulled off the O connector. So there's the problem. I need to reattach an O-connector to the ground and rebolt it to the head. I'm so glad pay day is tomorrow.
09-02-2011, 08:16 AM
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And here I was about to stick a 15m open end wrench behind there and start going after that head bolt. Thanks a bunch for that, thats exactly what I will be doing!
09-24-2011, 02:22 PM
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Yes, post 11. It was the ground on the back of the head. I had literally somehow broken the o-connector where it attached to the wire. I soldered an extension, but bolted it to the back of the head (I used a open ended 5/8th wrench.. it was fun) as I needed to drive the car in the morning and did not want to fish the wire through the harness. I have not had any issues since then. My idle is getting normal as well, it will only shoot up a bit when its cold, warm it is completely fine.
