So i've read extensively through the internet and tried to figure through threads on here what the best and FINAL fix for our crappy window motors is. Mine aren't dead YET, but i'm looking to fix this before it becomes a problem. With only 19,000 miles on my WS6, my drivers side window became temperamental yesterday, but finally went all the way up. That being said, has this board determined the best and final solution for these crappy units?

From what I gather:

- Dorman/Autozone units were good, then bad, then good then bad again
- remans are no better than the original
- C4/C5 Corvette units are good options?

So the question remains...is there a definitive, final and GOOD fix for these?

 

I replaced mine with the dorman unit. I was startled at how noisy and "unsmooth" it was. Installation was a PITA. After hearing it, I thought it was faulty so I returned it to get a new one. Same thing. I then proceeded to remove the second one again to see if it was installation or mounting error. Working the motor unattached to the door created the same sound and vibration. Even greasing it did absolutely nothing. I put it back in and I'm just going to deal with it. On the plus side, it's quicker and more powerful than the old unit. Doing it again, I might just go with a re-manufactured one. They're slow and they die out prematurely, but they're smooth and quiet compared to the freakshow I came across. Mine stopped working this year after 60k miles. It seems that time does these units in more than actual use. Sorry I can't offer you a solution, it seems we just have to live with this.

 

There's a sticky for this: https://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-f...hs-truths.html

You have the classic thermal resistor failure. You should change the motor ASAP. This will only get worse until it leaves you with a window that won't go up. ... in a driving rain storm. Be sure to use the shbox method to ensure longevity of the regulator attachment on the door and to make future motor swaps a 15 minute job.


These motors were first installed in a car in the 60's. They are an excellent part for that decade. Unfortunately we've been looking for retrofit options but haven't landed on a modern, direct-fit options. One member is experimenting with one option now, but upgrading this motor to something new could cost more than the entire car is worth.

 

I've had a very different experience. The motors on my '98 are factory original, with 18k miles on the car. I've owned several of these cars, two of them from brand new, and worked on many others. The original motors on my '98 are the fastest I've ever seen, even compared to the others I bought new. I don't know why this is the case, but time/age has done nothing to slow them down or make them unreliable after 22 years. On the other hand, the driver's side motor on my '02 car died when it was just about 10 years old - but over 100k miles on that car at the time.

 

+1, it's a crap shoot. My factory motors didn't last 3 years/25K miles, I've had some new aftermarket motors last less than 3K miles, and my current motors have been going strong for 11 years and 60K miles.


I'm going to broaden this philosophy, translate it to my physical self, and chant a derivative of this sentence every time I look at myself in the mirror.

 

Haha....no kidding. I sure do wish I still had the same level of energy that I did in 1998.

 

Thank you - I did come across the Autotrix method, but now that I see this thread, it pretty much tells me that it's like putting a band-aid on a squirrel after you killed it with a double-barrel shotgun. It will only make it appear like it's fixed, before it fails anyway. If the Dorman units are the way to go, then I will get those and cross my fingers that they aren't as bad as the one thread I read where people said they were great then sucked because they changed something. And using the shbox method will be my route. Thanks!!!


EDIT: Post #45 in that thread you linked explains that Dorman went back to the original design to save production costs, so they are about as good as the originals. That was the thread I read originally with people saying Dorman was good, then bad. But that was 2015....it's been 5 years. I'm just wondering if there's any updated info out there.

 

Indeed; however, it seems to make some people feel better.


A lot of people have had this concern over the past few years. No one has reported back any reliability issues like we had with the units that came from the factory. (So, I think the community is feeling some greater confidence in these new Dorman motors in the old shell.)

 

I just did my window motors. This is 98 LS1 TA. I did one window motor about 6? months ago. The other was just done a few weeks ago. I used Dorman motors from Autozone. So far - no problems. Hopefully, your regulator has not moved.
My driver's door glass was about 1/2" below the weather seal when fully up (this was the front part of the door glass). When I pulled the door panel - it was a mess ! regulator had dropped down about 1/2" - 3/4" ...holes were oval - someone had put some crazy clip/nut/bolt in two of the
regulator mounting holes. This nut/bolt was steel and I am sure that helped tear through the door material - fiberglass ? See this thread for info on regulator moving
https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...-included.html

 

Good to know. I mean, at the end of the day, my options are pretty limited to what brand I can purchase anyway. I do fear doing this job though, as I believe the door panels have never been off on this car, and from what i've read so far, it seems like a nightmare. Then, add in the rivet situation and drilling them out? WTF. Adding bolts after, making sure they do not touch/rip into the fiberglass - no idea what that even means - do the three rivets that get drilled out get replaced with bolts/washers? I'd almost pay someone who knew these cars inside out to do the swap for me.

That looks like a nightmare. I do not have this problem (at least I do not think so).

 

The OP will be able to avoid this by using the shbox method.

 

If you do the shbox method, it's not a nightmare. Just take your time. The first time, it's a little longer because you have to locate and drill the holes. Any changes thereafter are a total breeze.


The regulator rivets are like drilling through a safe - YOU ARE NOT GOING TO TOUCH THESE! The rivets that hold the motor to the regulator cut like butter and are no problem. You can't see them until you make the new holes in the door panel, using the shbox method.

Replacing the regulator rivets on the door skin with bolts is a problem - but these are the ones you are going to LEAVE IN PLACE. Replacing the motor to regulator attachments with bolts is not a problem because it is steel-on-steel.


Do this yourself and you won't be disappointed. This is a 25 year old car. If you pay someone to do this, they will F* it all up ...and you'll loose your money.


You shouldn't have this problem. While you have the door panels off, check out the sticky on the door panel cracking and make sure you have done the relief holes for that issue.

 

I had never taken apart any of my interior door panels before and was apprehensive about not getting it back together right.

Bought the Dorman replacement motor, read the sticky on here, followed the instructions provided with the motor, and took my time. Even with taking my time, sitting to look at it after each step, I was done in less than 2 hours. I am reasonably sure I could do it in 1 hour or less now.

You have to drill out a couple rivets and then use screws/nuts. It was much easier than I expected it to be. Been working fine for years. I do not know what the shbox method is.

DO NOT mess with the window regulator, that is not your problem and will just create a much bigger problem. And that is what a shop will create, a bigger problem. It is really straight-forward and simple. Do it yourself. Got a drill? A few drill bits? An hour or two? You are almost done.

 

Sorry, I just looked at the shbox method and now I remember. Those were the instructions I followed. Like anything, read up on it first.

http://shbox.com/page/windowmotor.html

 

Everything wssix99 and ghardester posted above is great advice. I know the instructions seem long and complicated/difficult when you haven't done this before, but afterward you will find yourself being one of the folks who says, "wow, that really wasn't so bad". The first time I did this was many, many years ago and, even after reading the instructions, I had the same apprehension as you do now. It really all makes much more sense once you have the panel off - the drilling of holes (for rivet access) and then drilling of rivets is actually quite easy and AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW THE METHOD MENTIONED ABOVE you won't have any issues with any ripping of fiberglass or regulator loosening/shifting after assembly (but, as also mentioned above, if you send this to a shop they will likely get it wrong, drill the wrong rivets, and then you'll have exactly all the issues you're worried about - that's why it's best to do it yourself).

FWIW, I seem to remember that the hardest part of doing this the first time was getting the door lock button off. Haha, that was an early step and I struggled quite a bit with it, which made me think the whole job was going to be a nightmare. But that was really the worst part from what I remember. Also, be careful with the panel for the door lock and window switches - the retaining clip (and mounting area for this clip) can break if you're not careful).

Of course, the first time takes a little longer because, in addition to not having done it before, you have to drill the access holes (don't worry about this, it is NOT what leads to ripped fiberglass and a shifting regulator, these are just access holes and DON'T support any mounting hardware of any kind). Once that's done, future motor swaps will go even quicker. As mentioned above, the rivets that DO get removed and replaced with bolts are metal-to-metal contact, and those are the ONLY ones that should be drilled out - DO NOT drill out any other rivets (that is key.)

 

Yea, you almost have to finger it. I felt a little dirty the first time and felt the need to go to confession. (... and I'm not even Catholic.)

With all the cars made with this type of lock button, you'd think someone would have made a removal tool for this?

 

I replaced my driver's side with a Cardone reman about 15 years ago and it's still going strong - maybe a little slower lately. But it's smooth and tight, not like replacements I've had on other 4th gens that were rough and sloppy, but worked.

My passenger side original is still limping along because although I've done the job several times on various cars, I don't really love it. It might not get all the way up in one try, but it gets there eventually.

 

That's so sad. It sounds like you are withholding proper adjustment from your car due to lack of love. I'm not sure if this situation needs a wrench or Jerry Springer?

 

Thanks for the shoulder. I will avail myself of it when I feel like having a good ol' car cry.

 

Thanks guys. The thorough information provided puts me at ease a bit and is truly appreciated. The window motors are among a laundry list of things I have planned for this car, but this is more of a necessity rather than an upgrade. The brass headlight gear swap being a similar undertaking. I guess the next step is for me to order the window motors and plan for a Saturday when I do not have to rush anywhere and can spend some time doing this. I'm going to likely print out the instructions and make sure I don't drill out anything I do not need to. :xfings: