onfire

iTrader: (17)

I thought the factory GM harness was not capable of supplying the proper voltage/amp draw to these coils. Other apps including Holley EFI claim the 12v feed wire has to be upgraded. ????

stevieturbo

Testing at the normal dwell times most would be running anyway, ie around 4.5ms, the IGN's draw less current than the OEM coils. So I wouldnt be worried about the wiring.

If you needed to run much higher dwells...then perhaps at some point you might, but from what I tested I see no reason to be concerned. And the little connectors on the coils themselves wouldnt be intended for running lots of current anyway as they're as small as the later OEM coils anyway.

onfire

iTrader: (17)

Interesting. Good info. I would not worry about the sub harness either since it is a very short run. At 3.2ms at 12V the 1A outputs around 118mj. Pantera can confirm, but I would guess at 4.5 ms and 14V the 1A is around 150mj. That's a nice increase. Factory LS1 at 14V at 6ms is around 85mj. At some elevated ms dwell the alky guys have to increase the main voltage supply wire to a dedicated 10ga due to the increased amp draw.

onfire

iTrader: (17)

http://documents.holley.com/199r10662.pdf

Holley recs 10ga also. Must need it at high ms dwell.

stevieturbo

The other thing is duty....for a drag car that only runs for a few seconds at a time, there really would never be any concerns about melting wires or similar problems.

Even for a street duty car....most of the time the coils are "off" as opposed to "on" and drawing current simply because of operating rpm.

Now where these coils came from...ie Mercury Marine. Clearly a totally different environment where they would see severe usage for extended periods.

As my ecu doesnt have outputs for 8 individual coils I'm effectively wasted spark...which means always 2 coils charing at any given time as opposed to one. And even then peak current is only around 15A. But current draw rises from zero to 15A over that 4.5s period. So it isnt even as if they're pulling a solid 15A the entire charge period.

Obviously I'm not making excuses to run bad wiring...but I've seen nothing that would suggest anyone needs to go overboard either compared to the standard coils

onfire

iTrader: (17)

I agree. For Pantera to offer a pnp kit that uses the factory harness, must be a bunch out there on the factory harness. I've pushed the factory ls1 coil (580) over 1500 engine hp on race gas at 6ms and a 0.030" plug gap. At some point going to the IGN1A makes sense even at lower power so I can open the gap up to 0.060". But it's hard to give up something that is already "figured ".

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi, yes the RMS current for the EIGHT IGN-1A coils @ 4.5 MS (6000RPM) is 35-38 AMPS.
That is less than 20 AMPS each sub-harness WELL within the 18 gauge TXL copper wire at 20" length.

Hi Steve, you are not correct with your "waste spark" theory.
The two coils do charge BUT one coil "fires" into high pressure/one coil "fires" into low pressure.
This effects coil current.
This effect is greater than sequential though NOT 2X.

YES correct, I was asked by Rick Mackie to work on his Outboard Racing engine ignition requirement.
This was due to the fact I ( a team member) invented the modern DIS ignition in the 1980's.
The requirement was the HIGH RPM (10,000+) TWO Stroke engine @ 100+mj.
This was achieved @ 2.02ms dwell.

Thus they were the FIRST customer.

Mercury Racing is the ONLY Marine OEM that may fit this coil.

Lance

stevieturbo

Even at 6000rpm all 8 coils are not charging at once, and also not pulling a continuous 6-7A per coil at once as it is rising from zero to max, hence overall current draw will be lower. I know fuses will blow a lot higher than their amperage rating, but even at 4.5ms dwell, "wasted" spark and 7000rpm....I've had zero issue with a 30A fuse feeding all 8 coils
I havent tested the current draw under high load or rpm's though, but it is something I could do in the future when everything is back together.

Although what I can say....is monitoring alternator output current whilst driving with a simple clamp meter. During normalish driving, this will read around 45A. So that's all engine controls, radio, fuel pumps, gauges and basic **** like that. Again I didnt test that one at high load either, but I dont think it would increase a huge amount.
Bare in mind half that reading at least would be the pair of 044's

Another reason I wouldnt be overly worried about the coil wiring specifically.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi Steve, first I want to thank you for your correct comments.

I would like to add some comments about your correct observations.
The "eight coil 6000 RPM" can be seen as four coil per revolution @ 90 degrees apart.
Thus there is 2.5ms between the need for the coils to have current.
This is how "overlaping" coil dwell operates.
YES, as the coil builds flux, the current flow will increase at a 45 degree slope. (0-25 AMPS/0-8.8ms dwell)
WARNING : When the coil is at full flux, there is "0" Ohms or a dead short. (FRIED Coil)

The observation "not tested at load" is VERY correct.
A motor, the coil, will NOT draw much current UNTIL a LOAD is present, the example of work done.

My test procedure should be clarified :

I use my CO-2 test chamber, a Spark Plug test fixture, @ 400 psi as my "load".

Work is done at the same example of an engine at full boost/full spray/18:1 compression.
These three examples are NOT added at 400 psi. just EACH example is equal to 400 of CO-2 pressure.

The last comment about wiring must include the length of the wire as in a garden hose water flow observation.

Lance

onfire

iTrader: (17)

So at 7500rpm and 7.5ms dwell and 13.8 feed voltage, what size wire is required for Bank 1 and Bank 2 coil packs that plugs into the coil pack sub harness? Also what fuse size is required for this ignition circuit ?

Daveymg

Awesome write up! Thanks for doing the leg work on this! Especially considering my coils are ancient this is the perfect time to upgrade!

Sommer86

iTrader: (46)

Well, if anyone is looking for a set, I've got the coils, harnesses, and red powder coated brackets and valve covers for sale. Never installed.

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

Folks, this is a thread about swapping and using the round truck coils into vehicles that didn't come with them.

We now have a thread about ignition coil testing, comparisons, brands and quality.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...knock-off.html

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi ALL, as we see Paul has NOW BROKEN/DESTROYED this thread.

LS-1 Tech states the new thread is an INVALID LOCATION !

I will CALL Nolan, an ADMAN, to STOP the "modder" PAUL from his EFFORTS to REDUCE MY COIL SALES.

HOW SAD it has come to this at LS_1 Tech !

We HAVE the THREE STRIKE LAW in CA> (this IS the THIRD)
Time for a Law Suite !

Lance

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

Wtf is goin on here?

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

I'm sorry Lance that you somehow misconstrue what other people do or say.

Creating a separate thread as a new topic is commonly done and further exposes the topics for more members to see and participate.

As a sponsor, you of course can freely participate in any thread and discuss your products, nobody has ever stopped you or any other vendor.

The above link not only works but you've already posted in it, so it's not an invalid link as you stated.

And as you and another has posted in THIS thread, it is not broken or destroyed as you stated. This thread continues as the truck coil upgrade discussion.

Please continue posting about other coils in the new thread, truck coils here in this thread. Yes, you are encouraged to offer and discuss your ignition coils and products. Neither myself nor anybody else has stopped you.

If you think myself or any other person, moderator or not, does anything inappropriate, I would encourage you to report it to a super moderator or IB Nolan.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi Paul, OK, KIND WORDS, thanks.

MY PROBLEM as others could have is that the LINK you provided CRASHED FOUR times.

YES, I searched found the NEW thread location AND posted, agreed.

PLEASE EXPLAIN that cause of that "crash".

Lance

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

I'm sorry, I can't. It works every time I try it, I haven't experienced it not working. It is listed as an active thread in the Generation III External Engine section.

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

It crashed for me also. I haven't tried going in from the genlll section tho.

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

I've re-entered the link address above, perhaps that will help.