bene

iTrader: (16)

There is a reason why K&N flows better than paper filter when its used, K&N doesn't filter air as much compared to paper filter, the paper filter less permeable that's why K&N needs oil in the element to filter some of the dirty air. That being said, with K&N filter you'll end up some contaminated air from the oil.

Just think about it. Lets pretend intake filters are wire meshes...

Paper filter...


K&N filter

acceleration junky

Just throwing this in here because it's relevant.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...d=58&Itemid=66

transambroli

iTrader: (4)

Don't pay 50 bucks for K&N if you want that type of filter get a mac filter its 30 bucks cheaper and is the exact same thing. ws6store sells em

ShortChevy

iTrader: (21)

Dude, your not getting this. I'm not saying leaves and bug went THROUGH the filter. I am saying the rubber sealing ring is not tall enough. My K&N did not come with the self adhesive sealing crap. I did get some and put it on when I installed it. That being said it also came loose and stuck to my MAF wire (descreened). That was fun. Now my point it pretty simple, it doesn't fit well. If it did they wouldn't even need any self adhesive sealing crap, it would just seal right the first time. I have done back to back dyno's and there is no difference over a dirty Fram. Infact NO FILTER netted 1.7 HP to the tires. Big whoop. It has also been proven that K&N's do not filter as well as papers. I'm done with this though. Do your own research and dyno time.

brandon_01_ta

switched from a k&n to a Fram paper filter over the weekend.... car runs exactly the same

reasons for switching: my MTI lid fits better, and i drive the car more often now so i wanted less risk of dirty air... plus oiling the k&n is a bitch
nothing wrong with a k&n tho unless there is a fitment problem or if u drive the car on dusty roads

jam01

sorry dude, you really should have read what i wrote, i have used these filters in many different cars. mine fits just as well as the paper filters do ( i have know problem with using a paper filter ) with no debris getting by it. if you really expect me to believe that you did back to back dyno test's. and if you did you must really be an idiot. my research and knowledge come from many years of school, experience and making mistakes.

ShortChevy

iTrader: (21)

I'm an idiot because I actually dyno my own setups instead of listening to internet hype and bullshit? That is by far the best statement I've ever read on here. When you have a dyno at your disposal for free and your car is on already strapped down why the hell not do another pull. The whole $2 in gas? When your doing twenty plus pulls why not do a quick small change and put something to rest? If you think what I just said was stupid then in my eyes you're the idiot.

The Mighty Texan

iTrader: (4)

Anyone?

armyboyatc

iTrader: (29)

My dad owns quick lube businesses and I had the opportunity of watching a guy try to sell some kind of foam filter. He had this little set-up where air was sucked through a square, he had air filters the same size as the square, and there was this little gauge that showed how much air was being flowing through and he had this cup of really fine dust and dirt stuff and as he poured this fine dirt and dust over the filters while air was flowing through them what the filters didnt filter out collected on the bottom of his little contraption. It was a pretty cool and practical little presentation. He had 3 filters. 1 filter was a regular paper 2- K&N 3- His foam filter. The K&N filter flowed the most air out of all three by a long shot but also let the most dirt through. The paper filter came in second as far as both air flow and how well it filtered. His foam filter came in last with just a touch under the paper filter as far as airflow goes but it filtered out almost all the dust. He wasnt selling these for performance he was selling them to help protect the every day little putt putt cars motors. They worked perfect for what he was selling them for. I was amazed at how little dirt the K&N actually filtered out. It wasnt just a waste of space, I mean it did its job, just not as good as the others. But at the same time, I was amazed at how much more airflow it had, so I came to my own conclusion that I would take my performance now and pay for it later. Just my own thought process but yours may be diff.

ShortChevy

iTrader: (21)

See there is the thing though, K&N's don't filter as well as a paper. On the flip side our filters are large enough and have enough area that even when dirty they will flow more then the motor even needs. So please tell me how you are gaining any performance. People are making it sound like the filter is a restriction, it is not. The biggest restriction on an LS1 engine is the throttle body, which is suppose to be the biggest restriction. If your air filter flows more then what is needed then whats the point, you'll never need the "extra air".

The Mighty Texan

iTrader: (4)

Good point! However I don't believe you can exceed the air intake with one though, good hp gains result from those "free mod" or ram air mods

jam01

[IMG]http://
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holy crap, you should of seen the mouse in there too..

armyboyatc

iTrader: (29)

If K&N filters dont do anything for our cars then why do tuners reccomend them, run them in their own cars, and sell them? Im pretty sure that a high dollar, highly competitive shop such as premier or XXX dont just run paper fram filters....

Empatho

iTrader: (16)

^^^^its a business, they are obviously going to promote using them.

The Mighty Texan

iTrader: (4)

Im pretty sure what the guy you quoted was saying is that our cars have large air filters, the paper ones more than likly filter better than the k&n which could show higher air flow due to less restriction (filtering), but since we have large filters the air FLOW isn't limiting the engine anyways and to get less filtering for something you dont need would be pointless. K&N might make more of a difference on other cars.

Arc00TA

iTrader: (17)

Our cars have large filters, take for example my roommates 350z, which is rated at 307hp so pretty close to a stock LS1. He has a PAIR of filters that total about 1/3 the size of our put together. I was shocked at how small they were. I'm pretty sure this is why we don't see much of a gain with the K&N, even if the paper flows only 80% of the K&N, it might only take 50% of that to actually feed the engine, so it is just degrees of excess.

ShortChevy

iTrader: (21)

Right on the money, if only more people could read that and understand. I guess some people don't understand marketing. Like I said in previous posts, I have personally run back to back dynos over a dirty paper and no filter at all. We had the time and just figured why the hell not. Gain of 1.7hp to the tires. That could be anything though and not even from a change, well within the limits of dyno error. People are going to try and tell me that a K&N is going to pick up more then 1.7hp over no filter at all? Are they trying to say you are going to feel 1.7hp? Either way, let people think whatever they'd like, it's not my car. Just figured I would try and help people understand a little better.

jam01

your right on the money, if only more people realized this. when you take cotton gauze that flows extremely well, then apply oil to it so it catches small particles of dirt which it does and has been proven!!!!! you get a company that has been in business for years, and even offers a warranty.

and for those foam filters, the also use an oil on them. i have been using those on my rc nitro cars for years. i have also seen those machines comparing different filters with a ping pong ball.


out of the 86 vehicles i have owned and driven, most have had a k&n filter. NONE have been on a dyno, but a lot have been down the 1320. i have made my own adjustment's to my car's, while i dont claim to be an expert just someone who has tried different thing and products.

to the original op, i appologize. i just cant stand bullshit.