Are headers proven? Anybody with headers plz hlp
06-14-2010, 12:59 PM
#21
Yeah, I am. I don't know what kind of dyno gain I would have gotten, but i don't race dynos. That's just my results and my opinions take it however you want it. Unless you're going for a bolt-on dyno or track record I wouldn't mess with it. And since most don't dyno or run at the track, well...
06-14-2010, 03:32 PM
#24
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from 98 stock manis and cats->longtubes and hi flow cats was just an awesome difference....I would say equivalent to turning up the boost in my Grand Prix with a pulley swap, just great power gains throughout.
Not track proven, but certainly smile proven! And the sound.....just awesome.
I think Longtubes/Lid/poly motor mounts are a MUST on these cars.
Not track proven, but certainly smile proven! And the sound.....just awesome.
I think Longtubes/Lid/poly motor mounts are a MUST on these cars.
06-14-2010, 03:47 PM
#26
headers are a mandatory mod for a lsx engine...they are the most beneficial bolt on and if you aren't going to do them your only reasonable excuse is emissions visual inspection
if you think long tube headers aren't worthwhile there is no point bothering with modding the car because you will be in for nothing but disappointments
if you think long tube headers aren't worthwhile there is no point bothering with modding the car because you will be in for nothing but disappointments
06-14-2010, 04:08 PM
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headers are a mandatory mod for a lsx engine...they are the most beneficial bolt on and if you aren't going to do them your only reasonable excuse is emissions visual inspection
if you think long tube headers aren't worthwhile there is no point bothering with modding the car because you will be in for nothing but disappointments
if you think long tube headers aren't worthwhile there is no point bothering with modding the car because you will be in for nothing but disappointments
This man speaks the truth!!
Click my sig for sound clips!
06-14-2010, 04:15 PM
#28
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i lost a bit of low end torque but gained about 12rwhp on an ls1 with just the headers. so depending on the duration of the race and the starting speed it might not be THAT noticeable but def. will be a difference. the heads/cam guys know how good headers are...BIG gains when you start breathing more. compliments every other engine mod.
06-14-2010, 04:27 PM
#29
I went from a 13.3 stock down to an 11.7 without headers. Yet I've only managed an 11.6 with LTs and no cats. Headers are really the only mod that I've been disappointed with.
Every car is different but some people on here are just delusional about their headers gains. And as Ruck just mentioned I've also felt lowend loss in some cars I've had with headers on them. Which makes me question stock stall automatic track gains that much more.
06-14-2010, 04:49 PM
#30
was the da the exact same?
most people think there is a low end loss when they are actually feeling a top end gain, that or it's mental all together...my cutouts make the car feel slower but it still picks up between .15-.2 and just under 2 mph with them open
IMO a stall is the only better mod for a lsx a4 car that already has the ls6 intake, for a ls1 intake car that would be the best competition
out of all the members on this site and all the lsx owners I have ever met this is the first time I've ever spoke to anyone who doubted the value of headers...was the car tuned for them? not attacking you I am genuinely intrigued because if it was the same air and was properly tuned your results are confusing
longtubes and complimenting exhaust are usually good for 20-30rwhp, that kind of gain makes a lid or pulley or intake feel disappointing in comparison unless the mods are done all at once
most people think there is a low end loss when they are actually feeling a top end gain, that or it's mental all together...my cutouts make the car feel slower but it still picks up between .15-.2 and just under 2 mph with them open
IMO a stall is the only better mod for a lsx a4 car that already has the ls6 intake, for a ls1 intake car that would be the best competition
out of all the members on this site and all the lsx owners I have ever met this is the first time I've ever spoke to anyone who doubted the value of headers...was the car tuned for them? not attacking you I am genuinely intrigued because if it was the same air and was properly tuned your results are confusing
longtubes and complimenting exhaust are usually good for 20-30rwhp, that kind of gain makes a lid or pulley or intake feel disappointing in comparison unless the mods are done all at once
06-14-2010, 05:28 PM
#31
was the da the exact same?
most people think there is a low end loss when they are actually feeling a top end gain, that or it's mental all together...my cutouts make the car feel slower but it still picks up between .15-.2 and just under 2 mph with them open
IMO a stall is the only better mod for a lsx a4 car that already has the ls6 intake, for a ls1 intake car that would be the best competition
out of all the members on this site and all the lsx owners I have ever met this is the first time I've ever spoke to anyone who doubted the value of headers...was the car tuned for them? not attacking you I am genuinely intrigued because if it was the same air and was properly tuned your results are confusing
longtubes and complimenting exhaust are usually good for 20-30rwhp, that kind of gain makes a lid or pulley or intake feel disappointing in comparison unless the mods are done all at once
most people think there is a low end loss when they are actually feeling a top end gain, that or it's mental all together...my cutouts make the car feel slower but it still picks up between .15-.2 and just under 2 mph with them open
IMO a stall is the only better mod for a lsx a4 car that already has the ls6 intake, for a ls1 intake car that would be the best competition
out of all the members on this site and all the lsx owners I have ever met this is the first time I've ever spoke to anyone who doubted the value of headers...was the car tuned for them? not attacking you I am genuinely intrigued because if it was the same air and was properly tuned your results are confusing
longtubes and complimenting exhaust are usually good for 20-30rwhp, that kind of gain makes a lid or pulley or intake feel disappointing in comparison unless the mods are done all at once
I only drive this car to the track and I usually only go to the track when I do new mods. So for that reason I just keep it in OLSD and I log and correct the tune on every pass (if it needs it). So really nothing changed outside of the headers.
And I feel that my car (4000 stall) should benefit as much or more than anyone as I am always in an RPM range that headers usually show the most benefit.
I don't know what else to say.
06-14-2010, 05:45 PM
#33
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99:
You are really making this harder on yourself than you need to. You have some of the most experienced tuners & engine builders telling you that in 99% -100% of the times headers make more power over the curve.
If you are really perplexed, just start with a cutout. The sound quality may not approach that of headers, but its cheap.
60 years of physics and engineering history has well documented the power gains of headers. Every modification involves decision making. It is a proven mod. You are making a bad assumption (racing a LT1) based on one experience. With mods, you just need to jump in. No one else can make your decision but you.
Good luck...
You are really making this harder on yourself than you need to. You have some of the most experienced tuners & engine builders telling you that in 99% -100% of the times headers make more power over the curve.
If you are really perplexed, just start with a cutout. The sound quality may not approach that of headers, but its cheap.
60 years of physics and engineering history has well documented the power gains of headers. Every modification involves decision making. It is a proven mod. You are making a bad assumption (racing a LT1) based on one experience. With mods, you just need to jump in. No one else can make your decision but you.
Good luck...
06-14-2010, 05:51 PM
#34
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DA was slightly worse (with headers) on my bests by a few hundred feet. But I've ran it both ways in the summer right before and after my swap with very similar DA ~2000. And it went from 11.88 to 11.82.
I only drive this car to the track and I usually only go to the track when I do new mods. So for that reason I just keep it in OLSD and I log and correct the tune on every pass (if it needs it). So really nothing changed outside of the headers.
And I feel that my car (4000 stall) should benefit as much or more than anyone as I am always in an RPM range that headers usually show the most benefit.
I don't know what else to say.
I only drive this car to the track and I usually only go to the track when I do new mods. So for that reason I just keep it in OLSD and I log and correct the tune on every pass (if it needs it). So really nothing changed outside of the headers.
And I feel that my car (4000 stall) should benefit as much or more than anyone as I am always in an RPM range that headers usually show the most benefit.
I don't know what else to say.
06-14-2010, 05:56 PM
#35
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My slow results after Headers + 3in Y on my 99 TA A4
Stock manifolds no cats + Cutout had the pinched part replaced too.
DA -163
87 Humid
55.0 F
1.928
5.497
8.433
83.21
13.129
105.70
After headers + 3 in Y
32ft Da
35 Humid
60.1 F
1.879
8.232
84.99
12.827
107.99
This run i bogged off the line and in 1 to 2nd shift, didn't have my pressure set correctly, I think i could have pulled a 12.7
Stock manifolds no cats + Cutout had the pinched part replaced too.
DA -163
87 Humid
55.0 F
1.928
5.497
8.433
83.21
13.129
105.70
After headers + 3 in Y
32ft Da
35 Humid
60.1 F
1.879
8.232
84.99
12.827
107.99
This run i bogged off the line and in 1 to 2nd shift, didn't have my pressure set correctly, I think i could have pulled a 12.7
06-14-2010, 06:05 PM
#36
Jon, you must remember... This is the board where bolt on cars go from 323s to 373s and there is a HUGE difference.
While having no proof to back it up other than a before after track time (no DA to take into consideration) or the "butt dyno". Neither of which can be counted on.
I am not saying I agree completely, as you said, all cars are different.
OP, are you an A4 or M6?
While having no proof to back it up other than a before after track time (no DA to take into consideration) or the "butt dyno". Neither of which can be counted on.
I am not saying I agree completely, as you said, all cars are different.
OP, are you an A4 or M6?
06-14-2010, 06:15 PM
#38
And realistically I would expect around a 10-15 HP gain without a tune and probable around 15-20 tuned on a stock car. It will always add more on a cammed car because any engine is an air pump the quicker you pump air in the quicker you need to be able to pump it out. With a stock car the factory manifolds are going to be less of a bottleneck opposed to a cammed car b/c cams cause increased flow which is why they make more power
06-14-2010, 06:17 PM
#39
My slow results after Headers + 3in Y on my 99 TA A4
Stock manifolds no cats + Cutout had the pinched part replaced too.
DA -163
87 Humid
55.0 F
1.928
5.497
8.433
83.21
13.129
105.70
After headers + 3 in Y
32ft Da
35 Humid
60.1 F
1.879
8.232
84.99
12.827
107.99
This run i bogged off the line and in 1 to 2nd shift, didn't have my pressure set correctly, I think i could have pulled a 12.7
Stock manifolds no cats + Cutout had the pinched part replaced too.
DA -163
87 Humid
55.0 F
1.928
5.497
8.433
83.21
13.129
105.70
After headers + 3 in Y
32ft Da
35 Humid
60.1 F
1.879
8.232
84.99
12.827
107.99
This run i bogged off the line and in 1 to 2nd shift, didn't have my pressure set correctly, I think i could have pulled a 12.7
If I had seen gains like that I would be out doing many cars with similar mods and less weight. My car runs about what it should for what I have. I was only expecting 2 tenths out of the headers, but I didn't get it.
Jon, you must remember... This is the board where bolt on cars go from 323s to 373s and there is a HUGE difference.
While having no proof to back it up other than a before after track time (no DA to take into consideration) or the "butt dyno". Neither of which can be counted on.
I am not saying I agree completely, as you said, all cars are different.
OP, are you an A4 or M6?
While having no proof to back it up other than a before after track time (no DA to take into consideration) or the "butt dyno". Neither of which can be counted on.
I am not saying I agree completely, as you said, all cars are different.
OP, are you an A4 or M6?
I agree with this, also what are your long term gains with the car? If its just to have a quick street car it is probable more then likely possible to achieve your goals without the headers. Its always important to ask yourself "what are your goals for the car" before you just start tossing mods at the car because there might be a more efficient way to achieve your goals.
And realistically I would expect around a 10-15 HP gain without a tune and probable around 15-20 tuned on a stock car. It will always add more on a cammed car because any engine is an air pump the quicker you pump air in the quicker you need to be able to pump it out. With a stock car the factory manifolds are going to be less of a bottleneck opposed to a cammed car b/c cams cause increased flow which is why they make more power
And realistically I would expect around a 10-15 HP gain without a tune and probable around 15-20 tuned on a stock car. It will always add more on a cammed car because any engine is an air pump the quicker you pump air in the quicker you need to be able to pump it out. With a stock car the factory manifolds are going to be less of a bottleneck opposed to a cammed car b/c cams cause increased flow which is why they make more power
