Are headers proven? Anybody with headers plz hlp
^^^+1 Jon, the OP just wanted to know if they were proven. We are basically showing him gains on our vehicles from the headers and stuff that are usually added to them. I'm at work and dont have my slips or else I could go into more detail. Basically I just was trying to let him feel assured (as I'm sure others were doing the same) that he wasn't wasting his money. And yes mine is a M6 and the times did vary because I wasnt on slicks. Of course our track sucked 4yrs ago so prep was pretty much non existent.
To be clear, yes headers will have varying degrees of effectiveness depending on weather, elevation, tuner, shoe size, which leg your ******* sticks to on a hot summer day, etc.
That isn't evidence to not get them. Headers are a well established, proven, modification on any car, mild to wild build.
That isn't evidence to not get them. Headers are a well established, proven, modification on any car, mild to wild build.
Will headers make more power on a dyno? Yes. Does making more peak horse power mean that your car will be faster? Not at all.
Yeah I looked into it and ultimately decided not to bother since they "can" be a pain in the *** with clearance and emissions (although poly mounts help for clearance). After research I personally decided that since I ended up with an '01 I would keep the stock manifolds and just get it tuned. Stock '01 and '02 manifolds apparently flow alright for bolt on setups and so I just did a custom Y (getting rid of the flattened out part because it's easy to do) into the slp catback. After the lid and tune the car feels good to me. I wouldn't say it's a waste of money getting lts, but obviously I didn't think it was worth it for me.
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There are tons of legitimate LS1 Dyno charts on 'Google'. I found pages on my first search (legitimate articles). Your sig says you already have a cutout and you are installing LT's. Look over the research that is out there. At this point you are just getting opinions and debates.
Check out the articles. Headers make power 99.5% of the time. If you know how to drive your car will be faster.
Good luck..
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This really shouldnt be a question headers have been proven time and time again from dynoes to track times. I have a hard time believing that every person who's done headers and picked up .2-.4 in the quarter did so because of the da change or weather, its already shown here that people even ran better times in worse weather. Anyway this is a graph from gmhightechperformance they did a dyno on a bone stock ls6 crate engine and then added simple bolt ons heres the graph with just headers and a tune. While the ls6 isnt the exact sae engine it is close and the results should be similiar. http://www.gmhightechperformance.com.../photo_08.html
This really shouldnt be a question headers have been proven time and time again from dynoes to track times. I have a hard time believing that every person who's done headers and picked up .2-.4 in the quarter did so because of the da change or weather, its already shown here that people even ran better times in worse weather. Anyway this is a graph from gmhightechperformance they did a dyno on a bone stock ls6 crate engine and then added simple bolt ons heres the graph with just headers and a tune. While the ls6 isnt the exact sae engine it is close and the results should be similiar. http://www.gmhightechperformance.com.../photo_08.html
Most people just go to the track, run a time and don't think anything else about it. If they run a bad time then they look for excuses like weather, but if they run great then it was all because of their latest mod.
And like I said earlier a lot of the big claims are from M6 guys that might have just ran a better time anytime because it's much harder to be consistent when you are trying to get the launch just right trying not to spin or tear your rearend up.
Also most don't have there cars tuned before and after the headers so that could swing results even farther. I have gained 7 rwhp from my WS6 on the dyno with only a lid and a catback. Had I have waited and done the tune after I put a set of headers on I would have gotten the gain form the headers plus that 7 rwhp and I might have attributed all of the to just the headers. That's not much of a difference but every little bit adds up, not to mention the track gains that I may have gotten from whatever trans tuning may have been done or removing torque management.
What I'm just trying to say is that a lot of these gains are exaggerated and most don't even think about what all went into making there car faster. Which is why I prefer to do one mod at a time and tune and track test every mod the same way. That's not an option for everyone, so you just never know what to believe on the internet. And I guess it's human nature to believe that you'll gain as much as anyone else from the same mod.
I've never even questioned the effectiveness of longtube headers...always figured they were worth it. But I have a question now...
Has anyone ever had a good tune done before headers/exhaust, and then did the exhaust and had a retune, to see what the gain was from the exhaust only, therefore excluding the tune gain?
Here's a simpler question actually. What kind of gain can a bone stock car expect from a dyno tune?
Has anyone ever had a good tune done before headers/exhaust, and then did the exhaust and had a retune, to see what the gain was from the exhaust only, therefore excluding the tune gain?
Here's a simpler question actually. What kind of gain can a bone stock car expect from a dyno tune?
This really shouldnt be a question headers have been proven time and time again from dynoes to track times. I have a hard time believing that every person who's done headers and picked up .2-.4 in the quarter did so because of the da change or weather, its already shown here that people even ran better times in worse weather. Anyway this is a graph from gmhightechperformance they did a dyno on a bone stock ls6 crate engine and then added simple bolt ons heres the graph with just headers and a tune. While the ls6 isnt the exact sae engine it is close and the results should be similiar. http://www.gmhightechperformance.com.../photo_08.html
You just showed a graph and an LS6 gaining 25 peak hp on an engine dyno. At best that would equal about 2 tenths at the track from an LS6. You don't think DA plays into some of these times? I've gained over 2 tenths from summer to fall and not changed anything.
Most people just go to the track, run a time and don't think anything else about it. If they run a bad time then they look for excuses like weather, but if they run great then it was all because of their latest mod.
And like I said earlier a lot of the big claims are from M6 guys that might have just ran a better time anytime because it's much harder to be consistent when you are trying to get the launch just right trying not to spin or tear your rearend up.
Also most don't have there cars tuned before and after the headers so that could swing results even farther. I have gained 7 rwhp from my WS6 on the dyno with only a lid and a catback. Had I have waited and done the tune after I put a set of headers on I would have gotten the gain form the headers plus that 7 rwhp and I might have attributed all of the to just the headers. That's not much of a difference but every little bit adds up, not to mention the track gains that I may have gotten from whatever trans tuning may have been done or removing torque management.
What I'm just trying to say is that a lot of these gains are exaggerated and most don't even think about what all went into making there car faster. Which is why I prefer to do one mod at a time and tune and track test every mod the same way. That's not an option for everyone, so you just never know what to believe on the internet. And I guess it's human nature to believe that you'll gain as much as anyone else from the same mod.
Most people just go to the track, run a time and don't think anything else about it. If they run a bad time then they look for excuses like weather, but if they run great then it was all because of their latest mod.
And like I said earlier a lot of the big claims are from M6 guys that might have just ran a better time anytime because it's much harder to be consistent when you are trying to get the launch just right trying not to spin or tear your rearend up.
Also most don't have there cars tuned before and after the headers so that could swing results even farther. I have gained 7 rwhp from my WS6 on the dyno with only a lid and a catback. Had I have waited and done the tune after I put a set of headers on I would have gotten the gain form the headers plus that 7 rwhp and I might have attributed all of the to just the headers. That's not much of a difference but every little bit adds up, not to mention the track gains that I may have gotten from whatever trans tuning may have been done or removing torque management.
What I'm just trying to say is that a lot of these gains are exaggerated and most don't even think about what all went into making there car faster. Which is why I prefer to do one mod at a time and tune and track test every mod the same way. That's not an option for everyone, so you just never know what to believe on the internet. And I guess it's human nature to believe that you'll gain as much as anyone else from the same mod.
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After awhile us experienced guys are not sure what to post.
The OP sounds very skeptical..like he does not want to install headers. And perhaps he should not. He already has a cutout, so perhaps his gains will be disappointing.
You have one 'out-lier' who is had a legitimate skepticism also. He had a bad experience, but extrapolating that to others is not fair. Is there exaggeration on Internet Boards over HP gains. Yes. Is that a reason to unilaterally challenge many years of mechanical engineering and physics. No.
To the OP. Your thread frustrates us tuning veterans. You want input, but you you challenge legitimate claims. I would just keep the cutout. You will not have as much power above 4000 RPM's as other header-equipped LS1's, but the argument is becoming never ending. You already had a reputable sponsor tell you the average HP/TQ gain. Personally, I would never hesitate to install headers..but this thread has lost objectivity.
Good luck in your pursuits..
The OP sounds very skeptical..like he does not want to install headers. And perhaps he should not. He already has a cutout, so perhaps his gains will be disappointing.
You have one 'out-lier' who is had a legitimate skepticism also. He had a bad experience, but extrapolating that to others is not fair. Is there exaggeration on Internet Boards over HP gains. Yes. Is that a reason to unilaterally challenge many years of mechanical engineering and physics. No.
To the OP. Your thread frustrates us tuning veterans. You want input, but you you challenge legitimate claims. I would just keep the cutout. You will not have as much power above 4000 RPM's as other header-equipped LS1's, but the argument is becoming never ending. You already had a reputable sponsor tell you the average HP/TQ gain. Personally, I would never hesitate to install headers..but this thread has lost objectivity.
Good luck in your pursuits..
I'm just saying I don't think they are always worth it. Averages gains are around .2 in the 1/4 and something like 20rwhp. If you live at the track or on the dyno then that means something. If you don't, then I don't know.
If I had them I would probably go ahead and put them on.
If I had them I would probably go ahead and put them on.
Ok well I just got my headers for my ls1 and im planning on installing them tommarow. My buddy has an lt1 camaro that we just did headers on 2 days ago and he has a 383 lt1 so we thought he would get big gains. Anyways we ran our cars before and after. Before I got him by about 2 cars and now he has the headers and I get him by 2 cars or maybe just a little more. He does not have tune yet though and he deleted the cats with the ory and the rear 02s are out plust the egr and air was deleted during the install and he doesnt have it tuned yet. Could it just be its not any faster because he needs a retune? Im just going to be pissed that if I do all the work like we did on his and I dont see any gains. Anybody who can tell me what gains you got with your headers plz chime in.
**** man I gained a full second from 13.60@104 stock to 12.60@107 with full bolt ons, tune and a 3200 stall converter.