Are headers proven? Anybody with headers plz hlp
Jon, you must remember... This is the board where bolt on cars go from 323s to 373s and there is a HUGE difference.
While having no proof to back it up other than a before after track time (no DA to take into consideration) or the "butt dyno". Neither of which can be counted on.
I am not saying I agree completely, as you said, all cars are different.
OP, are you an A4 or M6?
While having no proof to back it up other than a before after track time (no DA to take into consideration) or the "butt dyno". Neither of which can be counted on.
I am not saying I agree completely, as you said, all cars are different.
OP, are you an A4 or M6?
My slow results after Headers + 3in Y on my 99 TA A4
Stock manifolds no cats + Cutout had the pinched part replaced too.
DA -163
87 Humid
55.0 F
1.928
5.497
8.433
83.21
13.129
105.70
After headers + 3 in Y
32ft Da
35 Humid
60.1 F
1.879
8.232
84.99
12.827
107.99
This run i bogged off the line and in 1 to 2nd shift, didn't have my pressure set correctly, I think i could have pulled a 12.7
Stock manifolds no cats + Cutout had the pinched part replaced too.
DA -163
87 Humid
55.0 F
1.928
5.497
8.433
83.21
13.129
105.70
After headers + 3 in Y
32ft Da
35 Humid
60.1 F
1.879
8.232
84.99
12.827
107.99
This run i bogged off the line and in 1 to 2nd shift, didn't have my pressure set correctly, I think i could have pulled a 12.7
i love muy QTP longtubes, and i am in california. cops give me alot of **** cause i have flordia plates, but never about my exhaust. i also went form 84mph - 87mph in the 1/8th mile trap speeds, but no decrease in time cause my launch sucks!!! still stuck on 8.7! but i love my headers and wouldnt change them back for the world! like said before though, you really start to see a dramatic increase in power with a cam and especially Heads.
My 1st run tune includes TM o2 codes and AIR/EGR Delete Fans turn on sooner.
I also had my CB (magnaflow) deleted on the 2nd run, forgot to mention
Dumped 4inx12? bullet took its place.
I really want to see if i gain more adjusting my shift points (stock now) and pressure higher now that i have lid/ls6 intake, and might get chris ram air.
I also had my CB (magnaflow) deleted on the 2nd run, forgot to mention
Dumped 4inx12? bullet took its place.
I really want to see if i gain more adjusting my shift points (stock now) and pressure higher now that i have lid/ls6 intake, and might get chris ram air.
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Almost every performance part focuses on high rpm power and most of the time it comes at the expense of low end efficiency. Which is why some report a loss of torque feel down low.
At idle and cruise speeds the manifolds are more than enough to flow all the air the engine is moving (smaller is better if you don't need the extra flow). And the extra thickness of the manifold helps to keep heat from dissipating as quickly and better promotes scavenging. Headers will never be as efficient down low as a decent manifold (found on most newer cars). There for there is no way that headers alone will give you better gas mileage. And for the most part you are putting the pedal down more for the sounds/power and you get much worse anyway.
One thing that headers also effect is oxygen sensor effectiveness. O2s are design to be in the hottest part of the exhaust (right off of the head and before the cats) and prt of how they work is based off of heat. Headers don't hold in the heat that manifolds do and LTs move the O2 away from the head. Also removing cats effects heat as well, if you go that route.
So if you saw any gas mileage improvements from swapping headers it's likely because your O2s are sending incorrect signals to the PCM and causing a lean condition. Of course, it could also have been a bad/clogged converter as well that just got removed in the process.
At idle and cruise speeds the manifolds are more than enough to flow all the air the engine is moving (smaller is better if you don't need the extra flow). And the extra thickness of the manifold helps to keep heat from dissipating as quickly and better promotes scavenging. Headers will never be as efficient down low as a decent manifold (found on most newer cars). There for there is no way that headers alone will give you better gas mileage. And for the most part you are putting the pedal down more for the sounds/power and you get much worse anyway.
One thing that headers also effect is oxygen sensor effectiveness. O2s are design to be in the hottest part of the exhaust (right off of the head and before the cats) and prt of how they work is based off of heat. Headers don't hold in the heat that manifolds do and LTs move the O2 away from the head. Also removing cats effects heat as well, if you go that route.
So if you saw any gas mileage improvements from swapping headers it's likely because your O2s are sending incorrect signals to the PCM and causing a lean condition. Of course, it could also have been a bad/clogged converter as well that just got removed in the process.
i went from 312hp stock to 320hp with full exhaust, headers back, so dynos to me don't mean ****, I'm going to the track later today for the first time, see how I do w/o the stall.
I imagine I just need a good tune, but I'm waiting for my yank 3600 to get put in first.
I imagine I just need a good tune, but I'm waiting for my yank 3600 to get put in first.
After headers/ORY/catback/lid and a tune I went from a 13.4 to a 12.9 with some spinning. I cant really say how much power I picked up number wise. I rely on track times to see what my mods do. Of course the weather on both runs weren't the same so that is a factor.
Sorry got in a rush typing. The first time was stock and low 70's weather. The second was after the headers and all and it was much warmer like high 80's to low 90's. I didnt run the 12.9 til the sun went down, but here in louisiana it might drop 5* when the sun sets. It was still mid 80's that night.
It's this kind of stuff that makes it so hard to decipher what's real and what isn't on the internet.
This guy picked up 8 rwhp so he doesn't want to believe the dyno numbers. Tune should be worth 10-15 rwhp easily, but you never know about tunes either.
This guy changed 5 things and gained 5 tenths spinning. What was worth what?
Gained 20rwhp and picked up 4 tenths? That's some awesome track gains.
And how many of these cars with these ridiculous gains are M6 cars. With a manual, unless you are on slicks leaving off of a 2 step, you could run something different every time any even if you didn't change anything.
And how many of these cars with these ridiculous gains are M6 cars. With a manual, unless you are on slicks leaving off of a 2 step, you could run something different every time any even if you didn't change anything.
Excellent post Jon.
It still kills me when I see people report .4/3mph off of a mod with absolutely zero data (DA/same track/etc) from before/after runs.. Or take an average run from before and compare it to the quickest run after the mods.
It still kills me when I see people report .4/3mph off of a mod with absolutely zero data (DA/same track/etc) from before/after runs.. Or take an average run from before and compare it to the quickest run after the mods.
It's this kind of stuff that makes it so hard to decipher what's real and what isn't on the internet.
This guy picked up 8 rwhp so he doesn't want to believe the dyno numbers. Tune should be worth 10-15 rwhp easily, but you never know about tunes either.
This guy changed 5 things and gained 5 tenths spinning. What was worth what?
Gained 20rwhp and picked up 4 tenths? That's some awesome track gains.
And how many of these cars with these ridiculous gains are M6 cars. With a manual, unless you are on slicks leaving off of a 2 step, you could run something different every time any even if you didn't change anything.
This guy picked up 8 rwhp so he doesn't want to believe the dyno numbers. Tune should be worth 10-15 rwhp easily, but you never know about tunes either.
This guy changed 5 things and gained 5 tenths spinning. What was worth what?
Gained 20rwhp and picked up 4 tenths? That's some awesome track gains.
And how many of these cars with these ridiculous gains are M6 cars. With a manual, unless you are on slicks leaving off of a 2 step, you could run something different every time any even if you didn't change anything.
I gained less than a tenth in the 1/4 with mine in slightly worse weather. I personally would rather have kept my manifolds and cats.
I'll never put another set of headers on a bolt on car again. With cam, heads,nitrous or something to that effect, yeah. Bolt ons, no way.
I'll never put another set of headers on a bolt on car again. With cam, heads,nitrous or something to that effect, yeah. Bolt ons, no way.
That isn't evidence to not get them. Headers are a well established, proven, modification on any car, mild to wild build.
