Worth it to upgrade headers?
06-19-2011, 01:06 PM
#41
Have any dyno proof? Let's say stock '01 SS with just the two headers sizes and catted Y compared -- no other modifications.
I have trouble with these blanket statements, because they also don't take into account the torque curve and to my point a point of interest is SLP's LT version where the band moves depending on design -- certainly there is more to the story. Obviously it is also a cost/benefit analysis and the extent of future power goals. See:
http://www.slponline.com/view_produc...48&BIG=30048-1
"The New Long Tube Headers will produce +11 HP and + 10 ft-lbs in the 4800-6200 RPM Range compared to the Tuned Length Design. As the current Tuned Length Design will produce +7 HP and + 12 ft-lbs additional in the 2600-3400 RPM range compared to the New Long Tube Header Design. "
Lastly, would you consider the ARH Y-pipe to be a "good merge"?
I have trouble with these blanket statements, because they also don't take into account the torque curve and to my point a point of interest is SLP's LT version where the band moves depending on design -- certainly there is more to the story. Obviously it is also a cost/benefit analysis and the extent of future power goals. See:
http://www.slponline.com/view_produc...48&BIG=30048-1
"The New Long Tube Headers will produce +11 HP and + 10 ft-lbs in the 4800-6200 RPM Range compared to the Tuned Length Design. As the current Tuned Length Design will produce +7 HP and + 12 ft-lbs additional in the 2600-3400 RPM range compared to the New Long Tube Header Design. "
Lastly, would you consider the ARH Y-pipe to be a "good merge"?
06-19-2011, 02:04 PM
#43
Looks like its going to be Pacesetter since BBK doesn't come with air and egr fittings, and ill have to yank them out every two years for smog. Install ease is a must, and I think ill pick up a ton of HP since im pretty sure im choking my motor right now running shorties with a 224 cam.
). 
06-19-2011, 03:07 PM
#46
1 7/8 headers flow 19-20% more air than 1 3/4.
This will make more power everywhere. This is the same kind of thing that happened when the 102 first came out, people arguing it wouldn't be worth it on a SI or cam only or even stock cube H/C setup... As well as it actually loosing power.
Same thing with this, why it is still a debate, I'm not sure.
The 1 7/8 WILL make more Hp/Tq gains above 3000 Rpms, they might equal 1 3/4 below that (doubtful), but 1 3/4 will not make more power anywhere.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...p-426rwtq.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...o-results.html
As far as a merge goes.. I recommend the Flowmaster. ARH isn't much better than most. Same goes for Kooks etc.
This will make more power everywhere. This is the same kind of thing that happened when the 102 first came out, people arguing it wouldn't be worth it on a SI or cam only or even stock cube H/C setup... As well as it actually loosing power.
Same thing with this, why it is still a debate, I'm not sure.
The 1 7/8 WILL make more Hp/Tq gains above 3000 Rpms, they might equal 1 3/4 below that (doubtful), but 1 3/4 will not make more power anywhere.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...p-426rwtq.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...o-results.html
As far as a merge goes.. I recommend the Flowmaster. ARH isn't much better than most. Same goes for Kooks etc.
06-19-2011, 03:13 PM
#47
Now that I have read your posts in here as well as the other 13/4 VS 17/8 threads, it seems as you are very close minded and unwilling to believe FACTS.
It has been PROVEN that from stock-highly modded stock cube H/C setups (and of course stroker motors) that from 3000RPM+ the 17/8 WILL make more power, the 13/4 can keep up below 4000RPMS, but the 17/8 still make more power. Below 3000RPM you are cruising at best, who gives a **** which one makes more power at 1800RPMS? Even with that said, I would bet that the 17/8 will still equal 13/4 power output all else equal at 1800 RPMs.
You just try to think of some magical way to show that 17/8s aren't the superior header size. They make more power, it has been proven, PERIOD.
It has been PROVEN that from stock-highly modded stock cube H/C setups (and of course stroker motors) that from 3000RPM+ the 17/8 WILL make more power, the 13/4 can keep up below 4000RPMS, but the 17/8 still make more power. Below 3000RPM you are cruising at best, who gives a **** which one makes more power at 1800RPMS? Even with that said, I would bet that the 17/8 will still equal 13/4 power output all else equal at 1800 RPMs.
You just try to think of some magical way to show that 17/8s aren't the superior header size. They make more power, it has been proven, PERIOD.
06-19-2011, 03:46 PM
#48
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[QUOTE=lemons12;15057958]1 7/8 headers flow 19-20% more air than 1 3/4.
This will make more power everywhere. This is the same kind of thing that happened when the 102 first came out, people arguing it wouldn't be worth it on a SI or cam only or even stock cube H/C setup... As well as it actually loosing power.
Same thing with this, why it is still a debate, I'm not sure.
thanks for the threads. thats the proof i was talking about. i know on my old school sbc the 1 3/4 work better even my 406-625hp has 1 3/4 goin 9.50 so 3/4 does work just a matter of prospective either spend the couple hundred more for 15hp or spend less and pick it up somewhere else. These engines are amazing for there abilities, it's hard to believe what they'll take over the old sbc's.
This will make more power everywhere. This is the same kind of thing that happened when the 102 first came out, people arguing it wouldn't be worth it on a SI or cam only or even stock cube H/C setup... As well as it actually loosing power.
Same thing with this, why it is still a debate, I'm not sure.
thanks for the threads. thats the proof i was talking about. i know on my old school sbc the 1 3/4 work better even my 406-625hp has 1 3/4 goin 9.50 so 3/4 does work just a matter of prospective either spend the couple hundred more for 15hp or spend less and pick it up somewhere else. These engines are amazing for there abilities, it's hard to believe what they'll take over the old sbc's.
06-19-2011, 04:13 PM
#50
This is all very interesting guys. As I stated above, LS engines with their better flowing heads respond better to larger primary tube headers than traditional small blocks. Running an old school small block? Yes, stick to the 1-3/4 (or even less). Running an LS engine? Going to 1-7/8 will benefit you. And as lemons said, below cruising speed/3,000 RPM, who gives a **** if the 1-7/8 headers added less power than the 1-3/4 set? When you really get on it, do you keep the engine below 3,000 RPM?
06-19-2011, 04:24 PM
#51
Thanks lemons for the links. Interesting to see the two header sizes were so close until the RPM's got up there.
Quote from the link:
"...the 1 7/8" headers made a considerable amount more power than the 1 3/4" headers! Power output was virtually identical until 4800 rpm when the 1 7/8" headers began to outpower the smaller 1 3/4" primaries. The 1 7/8" headers made a peak hp of 414.x hp & 421lb ft while the 1 3/4" headers made 408hp & 419 lb ft of torque..."
Quote from the link:
"...the 1 7/8" headers made a considerable amount more power than the 1 3/4" headers! Power output was virtually identical until 4800 rpm when the 1 7/8" headers began to outpower the smaller 1 3/4" primaries. The 1 7/8" headers made a peak hp of 414.x hp & 421lb ft while the 1 3/4" headers made 408hp & 419 lb ft of torque..."
06-19-2011, 04:34 PM
#52
No problem guys. I just hate to see biased closed minded incorrect posts go unattended.
The info is out there. Whether one chooses to believe it or look for it is up to them.
I don't know about this. I have not seen a direct comparison, there may be some out there just not that I have seen.
The info is out there. Whether one chooses to believe it or look for it is up to them.
I don't know about this. I have not seen a direct comparison, there may be some out there just not that I have seen.
06-19-2011, 04:50 PM
#53
There's not much info out there about stepped headers. They are expensive and if tuned correctly, can show some gains. To do it right, you'd need a dyno and be able to try a few different lengths. Oh yeah, and a lot of money.
Here's a good discussion and description of what they are and how they work:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123594
Here's a good discussion and description of what they are and how they work:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123594
06-19-2011, 09:11 PM
#57
Yeah, I just got done crawling under my car doing a little clean-up and taking a hard look at where exactly the best spot would be to run the crossover pipe. Then after taking some measurements I realized I would be creating a new "lowest spot" under my car unless I went with some oval pipe.
So it might hurt my exhaust flow? Wouldn't it create additional savaging from the opposite cylinder banks thereby making more HP, and TQ ? Well I guess I know now there's a reason that everybody hasn't done it.
Thanks!
So it might hurt my exhaust flow? Wouldn't it create additional savaging from the opposite cylinder banks thereby making more HP, and TQ ? Well I guess I know now there's a reason that everybody hasn't done it.
Thanks!
