Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

2.5" duals are fine for up to hot head/cam/intake combinations. Again though, we run into the issue of having only mid-length headers. I don't want to buy a system then have to modify it to fit what is the overwhelming choice of people who buy headers for these cars. It would make more sense to have a central system in catted and off-road versions with a series of connecting pipes that fit many of Hooker's headers. You do that and I would almost be confident enough to bet money that the long-tube versions sell many more units.

for my thirdgen though.. it isnt an issue as it has 2 hair driers on it. for the thirdgen, it is all about clearance.

Toddoky

I hear you. we knew from the onset of this project that the long-tube guys would be asking for something that could be direct connected as well, but the existing Hooker long tubes did not provide the design criteria we work off of these days to couple them to this new exhaust system. If it's going to happen in the future, it will be in the form of a new long-tube design that is optimized to the same level of detail as these components are.

A point to make is that these mid-lengths combined with the Hooker exhaust system will provide an increase in performance that is greater than a typical set of long-tubes connected to a stock or aftermarket single pipe/single muffler exhaust system.

Since it hasn't been mentioned at this point, these components are designed to meet the elevated criteria of the new Hooker Blackheart product line and will be built in an entirely different facility (in Bowling Green, KY) than other Hooker products are.

I'm looking forward to getting a 3rd-gen in here to get started on that project.

SoFla01SSLookinstok

At $750 does that include headers or just the dual exhaust system.

Toddoky

That's for the dual exhaust system alone, the headers themselves will be in the $675 range...that comes with 304ss material, TIG welded and hand blended ports, optimized geometry collectors and investment cast collector spears. Those specifications might not mean much to you personally, but I want to be sure to list them for others that might be reading.

SoFla01SSLookinstok

Thanks. They sound like a nice header. I'm sure they also have tuned length primaries? Or is that only for long tubes..

I'd much rather a TD system than a single(which I have now). I'm interested.

Toddoky

The headers are a mid-length design and so provide for kinetic flow improvements only; they are too short to provide wave tuning properties. Your preference for a dual system over a single tube/muffler system identifies you as the type of user we have developed these components for. Thanks for your post, please check back to this thread often for more updates.

Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

Thats why I'm in favor of modularity. The central system remains unchanged but the optional pieces would connect to whatever header design. Or.. you produce the system as is and let someone else sell tubes that would connect to the system without suing them..lol.

As it stands now, the 4th gen car this would go on uses stepped long tubes (1 3/4 to 1 7/8) with a 3.5" collectors which all goes into a modified single 3.5" GMMG exhaust. I' looking to keep the longtube design (headers need to be replaced) and go to a true dual setup. The plan has been to go with Kook's stepped longtube and their dual setup. However, if you connected to your own long tubes, you would have this sale locked up as headers and system are half the cost of the Kooks setup.

Toddoky

I'm with you there. The header adapters that connect the mid-length headers to the exhaust system are the only components that would have to be discarded to prepare the system to be modified to any brand of long-tubes...it would be quite straight forward to do so. If another manufacturer wanted to make their headers connect directly to the Hooker dual system there's nothing we could do about it and we honestly wouldn't be too butt hurt about it since it would provide for increased sales of the exhaust system. I think you've got a new set-up brewing in your mind and I'd like to see pictures of it on this thread if you do indeed pursue it.

Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

I do. If you could make the driver side piece that connects the header to the system as long as the passenger side, it would make things a tad bit easier to deal with.

It doesnt look like it will be too hard to adapt other headers, especially if the pipes that connect to the headers are longer/equal length on both sides. Would also make the addition of cutouts and such more easily achieved as well.

Toddoky

The driver side adapter tube cannot be made longer unfortunately as there is an 8" long clearance depression pressed into the top of the exhaust system inlet tube just behind the adapter to clear the fuel lines and body brace under the car in that area. I believe what you want to do can still be accomplished by fabricating custom adapters.

Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

Ovalized tubing perhaps? Ovalized to the X-pipe. could give much of the clearance wanted..

Toddoky

The problem with using ovalized tubing is the associated expense, since you always have to transition back to round to connect it to other parts or the system. We were very deliberate in how we accomplished the tube clearance so as to not have a negative impact on performance or system cost. What you are describing would have to be carried out as part of the modifications to fit a different brand of long-tubes.

My6speedZ

iTrader: (18)

Usually it cancels out because the horizontal ID of ovalized pipe would have to be so much larger to maintain the same cross section of a round pipe.

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

The fact that you all are looking at a nre LT design to go with it is great, as my headers have seen better days after 12+ years. The fact that the Hooker/Jet-Hot/Pacesetter group all use the same pipe arrangement drove my curiosity if you were going to make this system compatible.

Toddoky

We are always open to considering development of new products that are requested by a large volume of enthusiasts. I can't honestly say that a new set of long-tubes that are compatible with this exhaust system are on our radar yet as enough time has not elapsed to gauge customer interest. If we did decide to develop something, it would get loaded onto the back-end of the existing development schedule and would not get inserted into the middle of it, which is counterproductive to maintaining an effective release schedule. Let's hear it from those of you who want it, because it won't happen if you don't voice your desire for such a product.

As far as making this new exhaust system compatible with any existing set of Hooker or other long-tubes is concerned, that won't happen as none of them have fitment/ground clearance that is acceptable to the new standards that we've imposed on our exhaust development efforts. We also would be hesitant to produce an exhaust system that would connect to another set of headers made by another company as we would have no way to control the fitment/quality of the headers and therefore could not guarantee a consistent user/installer experience.

Thanks for your post, I really appreciate it.

got milk??

iTrader: (18)

You have my attention with this setup. This is something a lot of us lowered guys would be interested in.

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

I am very pleased with the 5th Gen Blackheart line and the C6 Blackheart line. The new stainless steel Hooker headers in the Blackheart line have a minor and major diameter with a "choke" in the collector. Like what might be seen in very high end fabricated merge collectors.

That said, I'm disappointed in this system only being offered with mid lengths. I hope that there will be a 3" system to come that works with the new to come 4th gen Blackheart Hooker long tubes. It will be a hot ticket, especially if Hooker can price it under ARH and Kooks.

I like the Super Comp headers a lot as well and use them frequently. Also really like the Hooker swap cross members and headers along with their full exhaust systems too.

Hooker is doing a lot of cool things for sure lately. Kinda surprised about this though.

Also the old wives tail about losing back pressure from larger diameter piping is not something to worry much about if your cam guy is worth his weight. A good cam guy will be able to see how free flowing the exhaust system is and time the blow down event to work best with it.

If you have a very free flowing exhaust you design the cam with a longer power stroke so you don't lose torque. This is a win win situation as you gain torque at lower engine speeds and the mid-range and pick up high end HP from decreased pumping losses.

Anytime the piston has to be forced to push a lot of exhaust gas out of the engine, you lose power.

Toddoky

Thanks for posting and stating your interest. Ground clearance was a key focus of the design of this system. I spoke the other day about putting some images up of the comparative differences between the ground clearance of the Hooker system and a competitor's 3" system so those following here could establish a good frame of reference and I think now is as appropriate a time as any to do that...the first 3 photos are of the Hooker system and the last three are of the competitive system.

Toddoky

Hey Martin, thanks for chiming in. I guess a little thinking behind the design here would be helpful for those as knowledgeable as yourself to see where we are coming from with the design of this particular system.

The system as it stands was not designed to provide the absolute performance benefits that a 3" dual system will, but rather provide the user with balanced benefits that a 3" system like the one from Kooks cannot. Basically what those primary benefits would be are maximum ground clearance, a quieter interior noise level, the ability to be installed without having to purchase/install an aftermarket panhard brace (or remove the stock brace) and driveshaft loop and lastly to be obtainable at a reasonable price.

It would be more appropriate to weigh the benefits of this exhaust system in comparison to the multitude of single tube/single axle systems on the market and the power levels and sound improvements they offer for their price. The headers can be value measured against the ground clearance improvements they provide compared to all the low hanging long-tubes that are out there.

We decided against developing a 3" system at this time after evaluating the vehicle and noting the fitment constraints imposed by the stock suspension components, which is what this new exhaust system is specifically designed to be installed with. There's not a big market out there for $2,800 long-tube header/exhaust system set-ups that require another $300 worth of suspension parts to install...some guys will go there, but that's not our target with these new parts.

As you are aware of the raised quality level of the Blackheart line at this point, it will make sense to you that we don't intend to develop any new components under that banner that have glaring compromises, such as having a 3" system that does not have maximized ground clearance. Even with the added expense of the required aftermarket panhard brace and driveshaft loop that is required to install the Kooks system, the ground clearance provided with its installation is not acceptable to us here at Hooker/Holley.

If we get enough requests for new long-tube headers and/or a 3" system for this application, we will certainly consider adding it to our development schedule. There are some other 4th-gen products that will be released from us soon that will complement these initial products and make things more clear to you and the market as to what our overall intent is with this vehicle application. We'll get around to making other product as well, but it's going to take some time with the busy schedule we keep.

Keep up the good work over there at Tick, you guys are doing well!

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

I understand 100% about the $2800 exhaust system not being on the pallets for most guys that own a F-body. As Scott pointed out(MysixspeedZ) F-body's are becoming cheaper and cheaper to own and younger and younger people are purchasing them.

You think those kids have 3000 grand to spend on exhaust and 300 on suspension? Heck no! LOL

I know it would take a lot of time to design and ultimately produce in mass quantities, but if you guys could come up with a 3" to 4" y-pipe design with a really nice merge and 4" cat-back I think you'd find a market for something like that.

I really love the Blackheart line and am very happy you guys came out with it. I hope it takes off for you all as it looks to be VERY high quality and absolutely on par with ARH, Kooks, LG etc.