New Hooker 4th-gen F-body Headers and Exhaust
#101
TECH Resident
#102
The dyno testing is planned to be carried out on another vehicle as the car used for prototyping the system geometry was delivered with a bastardized exhaust system that made the car inappropriate for use as a baseline reference. There is another employee here that has a stock low mileage 2002 B4C that we are going to use for that purpose.
#104
The headers were welded up this past week and should hit the shelf by the end of the coming week and the exhaust system will follow them in the later half of next month. We have all the parts bent to build the first production run of the exhaust systems and are waiting for the arrival of the various brackets in the kit that we have laser cut and bent for us by a supplier. The welding of the exhaust systems will take place next week and we will box them up as soon as we received the vendor supplied parts.
#105
TECH Regular
iTrader: (9)
The headers were welded up this past week and should hit the shelf by the end of the coming week and the exhaust system will follow them in the later half of next month. We have all the parts bent to build the first production run of the exhaust systems and are waiting for the arrival of the various brackets in the kit that we have laser cut and bent for us by a supplier. The welding of the exhaust systems will take place next week and we will box them up as soon as we received the vendor supplied parts.
#106
TECH Fanatic
If you could test the new mid length headers with only the first section of exhaust pipes connected vs a set of 1 7/8's LT's with either nothing connected or only 12-18" collector extensions, it would show the true hp difference between the two without any other variables and could even be done on an engine dyno saving the effort of an in car installation.
#108
If you could test the new mid length headers with only the first section of exhaust pipes connected vs a set of 1 7/8's LT's with either nothing connected or only 12-18" collector extensions, it would show the true hp difference between the two without any other variables and could even be done on an engine dyno saving the effort of an in car installation.
#109
You can purchase products directly off the Holley website for convenience, but there's never any group buy opportunities offered directly from Holley. There are a few Holley/Hooker resellers who advertise on this site that would be willing to put together something of that nature I'm sure.
#110
TECH Resident
It was worth a shot!
So to fit with long tube headers; would material need to be added or taken away? I'm trying to picture how it would mount up to the mid-length headers.
So to fit with long tube headers; would material need to be added or taken away? I'm trying to picture how it would mount up to the mid-length headers.
#111
It all depends on the particular set of headers you will be modifying the system to fit with...you usually would go about it by installing the system from the rear up to the front of the crossover and then assessing what needs to be cut/modified from that point to get everything to connect together. I could get the geometry to match up using no more than two U-bends, so you can use that as a go-by.
#112
TECH Fanatic
We won't have much time with the car when it comes into the shop this week, so my test request instructions are only going to be to take a couple pulls on the chassis dyno this time around. There will be more testing done in the future when I bring the CB4 in to prototype the 50-state cat back. It would be beneficial for users to think of these components in the context of a complete system, which is where the real benefits will be seen.
#113
TECH Apprentice
iTrader: (16)
I understand that time constraints would make doing such a test difficult, but as I'm sure you noticed early in this thread a lot of people don't like the idea of having to use mid length headers for a bolt in installation. I do agree that the hp losses of other mid length and shorty headers is likely mostly do to their inferior collector design, but I would still like to see some testing showing what effect the shorter primary tube length has on performance. If the power losses really are as minimal as you expect they would be then I'm sure doing such a test would help sales. As far as looking at the headers as part of a complex system, I'm one of those people that wouldn't have a problem modifying/ building pipes to connect the new exhaust to LT's if the power difference is great enough, but at the same time would love to have the extra ground clearance and bolt in installation if the numbers are close.
I currently have 1-3/4" BBK long non-stainless tubes with the BBK 2.5" y pipe and Magnaflow catback, and while I like my system, its not my favorite. And the headers, not being stainless, wont last for ever. If you could provide data that shows going from 1-3/4" long tubes (most common size most people use) to a 1-7/8" mid-length wouldn't be a "downgrade" then Im sold.
#114
I understand that time constraints would make doing such a test difficult, but as I'm sure you noticed early in this thread a lot of people don't like the idea of having to use mid length headers for a bolt in installation. I do agree that the hp losses of other mid length and shorty headers is likely mostly do to their inferior collector design, but I would still like to see some testing showing what effect the shorter primary tube length has on performance. If the power losses really are as minimal as you expect they would be then I'm sure doing such a test would help sales. As far as looking at the headers as part of a complex system, I'm one of those people that wouldn't have a problem modifying/ building pipes to connect the new exhaust to LT's if the power difference is great enough, but at the same time would love to have the extra ground clearance and bolt in installation if the numbers are close.
#115
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (14)
I am really looking into this system to replace my bassani. Its a great system but i like this since both pipes go over the axle and I could finally run a watts link. However the non lt thing still gets me. I dont care if the mid length headers cost 3hp or 20hp I'm not in the business of making my car lose power when its not needed. Efficiency and getting the most from a mod is what makes cars faster than the norm.
With that said I think holley is going to lose business by making this setup not fit lt's kooks sells the crap out of their system even at their rediculous price. Bassani is almost half the price but doesnt sell nearly as much because of it not fitting lt's and also advertising.
I made my bassani system fit lt's and it took all of 20 min cutting and welding. However I wouldnt want to buy a 800 dollar exhaust and have to cut it up to fit. Thats where i think this is going wrong, many people will look at that and either buy the kooks or just keep what they have. Bottom line is if someone can make the system fit lt's in 20 min then theres no reason holley cant do the same, they do it once and they have the jig forever.
With that said I think holley is going to lose business by making this setup not fit lt's kooks sells the crap out of their system even at their rediculous price. Bassani is almost half the price but doesnt sell nearly as much because of it not fitting lt's and also advertising.
I made my bassani system fit lt's and it took all of 20 min cutting and welding. However I wouldnt want to buy a 800 dollar exhaust and have to cut it up to fit. Thats where i think this is going wrong, many people will look at that and either buy the kooks or just keep what they have. Bottom line is if someone can make the system fit lt's in 20 min then theres no reason holley cant do the same, they do it once and they have the jig forever.
#116
TECH Resident
I am really looking into this system to replace my bassani. Its a great system but i like this since both pipes go over the axle and I could finally run a watts link. However the non lt thing still gets me. I dont care if the mid length headers cost 3hp or 20hp I'm not in the business of making my car lose power when its not needed. Efficiency and getting the most from a mod is what makes cars faster than the norm.
With that said I think holley is going to lose business by making this setup not fit lt's kooks sells the crap out of their system even at their rediculous price. Bassani is almost half the price but doesnt sell nearly as much because of it not fitting lt's and also advertising.
I made my bassani system fit lt's and it took all of 20 min cutting and welding. However I wouldnt want to buy a 800 dollar exhaust and have to cut it up to fit. Thats where i think this is going wrong, many people will look at that and either buy the kooks or just keep what they have. Bottom line is if someone can make the system fit lt's in 20 min then theres no reason holley cant do the same, they do it once and they have the jig forever.
With that said I think holley is going to lose business by making this setup not fit lt's kooks sells the crap out of their system even at their rediculous price. Bassani is almost half the price but doesnt sell nearly as much because of it not fitting lt's and also advertising.
I made my bassani system fit lt's and it took all of 20 min cutting and welding. However I wouldnt want to buy a 800 dollar exhaust and have to cut it up to fit. Thats where i think this is going wrong, many people will look at that and either buy the kooks or just keep what they have. Bottom line is if someone can make the system fit lt's in 20 min then theres no reason holley cant do the same, they do it once and they have the jig forever.
It's definitely a great looking exhaust at an excellent price point... I'm still interested in hearing it on video, but I think with a couple of simple design changes it would sell like hot cakes.
#117
I am really looking into this system to replace my bassani. Its a great system but i like this since both pipes go over the axle and I could finally run a watts link. However the non lt thing still gets me. I dont care if the mid length headers cost 3hp or 20hp I'm not in the business of making my car lose power when its not needed. Efficiency and getting the most from a mod is what makes cars faster than the norm.
With that said I think holley is going to lose business by making this setup not fit lt's kooks sells the crap out of their system even at their rediculous price. Bassani is almost half the price but doesnt sell nearly as much because of it not fitting lt's and also advertising.
I made my bassani system fit lt's and it took all of 20 min cutting and welding. However I wouldnt want to buy a 800 dollar exhaust and have to cut it up to fit. Thats where i think this is going wrong, many people will look at that and either buy the kooks or just keep what they have. Bottom line is if someone can make the system fit lt's in 20 min then theres no reason holley cant do the same, they do it once and they have the jig forever.
With that said I think holley is going to lose business by making this setup not fit lt's kooks sells the crap out of their system even at their rediculous price. Bassani is almost half the price but doesnt sell nearly as much because of it not fitting lt's and also advertising.
I made my bassani system fit lt's and it took all of 20 min cutting and welding. However I wouldnt want to buy a 800 dollar exhaust and have to cut it up to fit. Thats where i think this is going wrong, many people will look at that and either buy the kooks or just keep what they have. Bottom line is if someone can make the system fit lt's in 20 min then theres no reason holley cant do the same, they do it once and they have the jig forever.
#118
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (14)
i understand how corporate bs goes i just think they arent seeing the big picture. hooker is trying to enter into a market that doesnt really exist. no one really wants to run mid length headers, everyone has lt's and they make more power. ergo there isnt really a market for midlengths. if they become carb approved people in cali might like them but i doubt that could even happen since they move the cats. so in order to run this exhaust without modifcation hooker wants us to sell our lt's and buy their hp losing mid lengths and exhaust.... jsut not smart marketing lol
i know it makes sense to us but not necessarily to them but personally i'd rather sell an 800 dollar exhaust alone than trying to gear it towards their headers and potentially sell much less and make the same or less money.
WAYLAND1985: I don't even know if you need to do that. My bassani system fit my arh's with just cutting it back and bending the pipe a bit. not many shops like to work with stainless because it will crack when you try to expand it with a normal pipe bender, however most shops can do it.
i know it makes sense to us but not necessarily to them but personally i'd rather sell an 800 dollar exhaust alone than trying to gear it towards their headers and potentially sell much less and make the same or less money.
WAYLAND1985: I don't even know if you need to do that. My bassani system fit my arh's with just cutting it back and bending the pipe a bit. not many shops like to work with stainless because it will crack when you try to expand it with a normal pipe bender, however most shops can do it.
#119
TECH Resident
WAYLAND1985: I don't even know if you need to do that. My bassani system fit my arh's with just cutting it back and bending the pipe a bit. not many shops like to work with stainless because it will crack when you try to expand it with a normal pipe bender, however most shops can do it.
And seeing as I'm about to get tuned in a couple of weeks anyways, it's tempting to purchase these and do it all at once
#120
i understand how corporate bs goes i just think they arent seeing the big picture. hooker is trying to enter into a market that doesnt really exist. no one really wants to run mid length headers, everyone has lt's and they make more power. ergo there isnt really a market for midlengths. if they become carb approved people in cali might like them but i doubt that could even happen since they move the cats. so in order to run this exhaust without modifcation hooker wants us to sell our lt's and buy their hp losing mid lengths and exhaust.... jsut not smart marketing lol
i know it makes sense to us but not necessarily to them but personally i'd rather sell an 800 dollar exhaust alone than trying to gear it towards their headers and potentially sell much less and make the same or less money.
WAYLAND1985: I don't even know if you need to do that. My bassani system fit my arh's with just cutting it back and bending the pipe a bit. not many shops like to work with stainless because it will crack when you try to expand it with a normal pipe bender, however most shops can do it.
i know it makes sense to us but not necessarily to them but personally i'd rather sell an 800 dollar exhaust alone than trying to gear it towards their headers and potentially sell much less and make the same or less money.
WAYLAND1985: I don't even know if you need to do that. My bassani system fit my arh's with just cutting it back and bending the pipe a bit. not many shops like to work with stainless because it will crack when you try to expand it with a normal pipe bender, however most shops can do it.