headers and no gains!
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: IL
headers and no gains! if i get my car tunned at speed inc. will i see a gain in hp then?? my car has not shown any gains actually i lost mph when i went to the track last. so i maybe lost hp. so will this help alot? like my original expectations of 10-20 hp.???i really do not understand why this is but hey. many people have said some are lucky and see gains and do no pcm tunning and some dont. is this really the case??? well we will c but a pcm tuning is really expensive. like 500 bucks. i dont know what to do here. any suggestions?
1998 ws6 (SLOW) M6
borla, lid, mac headers w/offroad, A/T module.
best e/t 13.44 107.6
1998 ws6 (SLOW) M6
borla, lid, mac headers w/offroad, A/T module.
best e/t 13.44 107.6
"All Motor 9 Second club member"
iTrader: (60)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,235
Likes: 2
From: On the Bumper!
Re: headers and no gains! It really depends on what the air was like the last time you ran at the track. Right now the air is at it's worst, meaning the DA is higher than it was a few months ago. Also , you probably went pig rich when you installed the headers which can easily rob you of a couple tenths. I would have it Ataped/scanned and have it tuned in to get your A/F ratio right. it's possible that if you don't know what your O2s were before and then added the headers the problem could have been magnified. There could be a 1/2 second bottled up in there and you don't know it. Just my .02. Keep your head up. The addition of headers definitely helped. Get the tuning done. Remember "Lean is Mean". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
12 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, Fl
Re: headers and no gains! Yes, it seems a lot of people (including myself) perform mods, and expect to run better times all year around. This isn't necessarily true <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Air temp, humidity, etc.. all drastically affect the power output of your car. Even when tuned or dialed in, your not going to be running the same in 90F weather as you are in 70F weather.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: IL
Re: headers and no gains! then my question is should i get it tuned at speed inc. for 500 bucks or should i get it ataped and just adjust my a/f ratio, and buy a maft. i know a guy who can atap. is that my only concern is my a/f ratio?? is that what is making me slower. would the gains be the same if i ataped it and then tuned it with maft, or by tuning it. and if one is more how much more. i want to do the cheapest of the two, which will be the ataping one, but i want to know if it would be worth it to get it tuned for 500 bucks at speed inc. thanks
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
From: Maple Grove MN
Re: headers and no gains! When I put my headers on and got rid of the cats it feel like I lost a ton of power. I read in the computer section that with LS1edit you can turn off COT (cat over temp)and that compensates for the richness you get from taking off the cats. He gained 12rwhp by just turning that off. I have yet to tune my car since the header install but I didnt realize it was going to hurt me that much istalling headers.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,029
Likes: 0
From: Chi-Town
Re: headers and no gains! where did you race? and what were the temps like on the two different days (same track?)
i gained about .3 with off road pipes on my A4.
dont waste the money tuning for headers. get a maft if you can and lean it out. thats what i did and she ran great.
i gained about .3 with off road pipes on my A4.
dont waste the money tuning for headers. get a maft if you can and lean it out. thats what i did and she ran great.
Trending Topics
Re: headers and no gains! No one should do any major mod unless they have atap. Otherwise, you have no clue what your engine is doing. Many people just slap on headers and lose power because their a/f is screwed up. You probably just need to get a maft, but if you tune with that you could screw up your motor if you don't watch it with atap. I would not tune with a maft going by blind luck. Get it too lean, and boom.
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Re: headers and no gains! Don't spend a dime until you know what your car is doing! If you don't have access to someone with ATAP just buy one or EASE. Unless you plan extensive mods you don't need LS1_Edit so you can probably just get a MAF Translator, but again, you won't know this unless you have logged your car's current performance. You need to understand all of your motor functions to properly tune your car because every car responds differently and you can't just do something to yours because someone else did it to theirs. You can buy the diagnositc software and MAF for under $500 and not be stuck with programming that will be potentially obsolete with your next mod. The only other thing that you'll need is a laptop but you can get these plenty cheap.....I recently bought a PII 166mhz one for $150 and it works like a champ.
To put this in perspective for you, when I started my LS1 conversion I had a paltry 288 RWHP and 300RWTQ. Through diligence, selecting proper components, and most importantly.....paying critical attention to exactly how the motor is running I have gained 103 RWHP and 71 RWTQ (new totals are 391/371 HP/TQ) with just bolt-ons (stock heads) and fine tuning so it can be done! Good luck!
To put this in perspective for you, when I started my LS1 conversion I had a paltry 288 RWHP and 300RWTQ. Through diligence, selecting proper components, and most importantly.....paying critical attention to exactly how the motor is running I have gained 103 RWHP and 71 RWTQ (new totals are 391/371 HP/TQ) with just bolt-ons (stock heads) and fine tuning so it can be done! Good luck!
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: illinois
Re: headers and no gains! i just got off the phone with brian from bg performance and he told me that auto tapping and using a maft is not as accurate as getting a full tune. that i will have to keep on unplugging my battery because the computer tries to relearn itself. and a full blown dyno tune will be more accurate measure for my a/f ratio. and i will be better off in the long run with a dyno tune. so i should spend the five hundred dollars or go ahead and get my car auto tapped and use the maft. i would much rather get it tunned but damn that is very pricey. i am not that knowledgable about my cars pcm, but i really want to get some gains from these headers! so i guess my overall question is, is this my only concern my a/f ratio, or is it more things that should require a dyno tune. i mean it is cheaper? but brian told me that atap is not a good thing to use to read your a/f ratio. it doesnt use a broadband reading like a dyno tune would, because you a/f ratio changes and auto tap cant read it as good. SO I NEED ADVICE PLEASE!!! i hate computer cars!!! why cant these cars be carburaters!!!! GOD! thanks!
1998 trans am ws6 M6
1998 trans am ws6 M6
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 0
From: katy, tx
Re: headers and no gains! You didn't say whether or not you put on long tube headers or shorty headers. I know many people who have had no gains whatsoever with shortys, a waste of money in my opinion, and absolutely no one who didn't gain with long tubes including myself. And I didn't need any tuning with my long tubes and high flow cats. Don't rush into anything. If you got shortys, I'm sorry, get long tubes. If you got long tubes, dyno your car and see what's happening, if you gained or not. Dynoing your car is far cheaper than guessing that nothing happened. Just my 2 cents.