I'm fixin' to give up, here.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: St. Louis, MO
I'm fixin' to give up, here. Well as you can see, it's my first post but rest assured that I've been studying this forum intensely for several days now.
My 2002 TA is out of warranty and I have decided that I'm sick and tired of the non-existent exhaust rumble of the stock exhaust. It's a ramair WS6 with 30,000 miles. I've listened to as many sound clips as I can stand and read as many reviews and how-to's as I can manage and I just want to get it done.
Except, I still don't know what I want.
I DO know that:
I have done nothing but add a SLP lid and K&N to the car.
I want a louder rumble without getting tickets or scaring the dogs.
I want to increase street power and drivability.
I want no rasp or vibrations.
I want no knocking on the subframe or suspension.
I want no issues passing state mandated sniffer tests.
Given these parameters I'm guessing I should be looking at a set of headers with emission sensor fittings, a catted Y-Pipe and an exhaust system.
Will the Pacesetter LT's with the TSP catted y-pipe and a Magnaflow back end system all work together? I see the PS LT's are a widely liked and accepted solution here on the forum and the Magnaflows are really more of a "as you like it" kind of decision. It's the mating up of all of these parts that's got me worried.
Will this system bolt up without a great deal of hassle? It has to bolt together until I can get to a weld shop.
Will this investment provide enough street HP to be really noticable or am I wasting money?
To keep it emission legal, I know I'm going to need to extend the O2 sensor cables but what's the deal with O2 sims? Do I need them as well?
I'm fairly competent under a car but have no computer or tuning capabilities and wonder how do I go about gettiing the maximum out of the investment. How does one go about finding a tuner?
Thanks to all for any help and encouragement.
Have a nice holiday weekend.
My 2002 TA is out of warranty and I have decided that I'm sick and tired of the non-existent exhaust rumble of the stock exhaust. It's a ramair WS6 with 30,000 miles. I've listened to as many sound clips as I can stand and read as many reviews and how-to's as I can manage and I just want to get it done.
Except, I still don't know what I want.
I DO know that:
I have done nothing but add a SLP lid and K&N to the car.
I want a louder rumble without getting tickets or scaring the dogs.
I want to increase street power and drivability.
I want no rasp or vibrations.
I want no knocking on the subframe or suspension.
I want no issues passing state mandated sniffer tests.
Given these parameters I'm guessing I should be looking at a set of headers with emission sensor fittings, a catted Y-Pipe and an exhaust system.
Will the Pacesetter LT's with the TSP catted y-pipe and a Magnaflow back end system all work together? I see the PS LT's are a widely liked and accepted solution here on the forum and the Magnaflows are really more of a "as you like it" kind of decision. It's the mating up of all of these parts that's got me worried.
Will this system bolt up without a great deal of hassle? It has to bolt together until I can get to a weld shop.
Will this investment provide enough street HP to be really noticable or am I wasting money?
To keep it emission legal, I know I'm going to need to extend the O2 sensor cables but what's the deal with O2 sims? Do I need them as well?
I'm fairly competent under a car but have no computer or tuning capabilities and wonder how do I go about gettiing the maximum out of the investment. How does one go about finding a tuner?
Thanks to all for any help and encouragement.
Have a nice holiday weekend.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee,WI
yes that set up would work. aslo hooker catback is a mild but a nice rumble when you want people to know your not stock. you can go pretty much any route except loudmouth or tsp rumbler. im sure alot of others will chip in. have a good weekend yourself. nick
what about headers/catted y pipe/cutouts/stock catback??? that way you can be really quite when wanted and loud as crap when WOT. just a suggestion
i did my 01 trans am serveral times befor sticking with on system. I loved my pacesetters, with catted ypipe and dynomouth catback. it was pretty quite when reg driving but under load, it screamed!
Hope this helps!
i did my 01 trans am serveral times befor sticking with on system. I loved my pacesetters, with catted ypipe and dynomouth catback. it was pretty quite when reg driving but under load, it screamed!
Hope this helps!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,829
Likes: 30
From: Central Indiana Honors: 4th grade spelling bee contestant
Originally Posted by Hammer-Ed
To keep it emission legal, I know I'm going to need to extend the O2 sensor cables but what's the deal with O2 sims? Do I need them as well?
Ed,
Thanks for posting here and it was a great first post!
I was also going to suggest a Magnaflow catback, but I see that you're already looking in that direction. I didn't know if you wanted longtubes and new Y-pipe to go with it, but you're considering them too.
The Magnaflow on stock manifolds has a great deep rumble without being too overbearingly loud. And with Pacesetters and a catted Y, it would pick up some volume and get even deeper and meaner. I considered that setup for a very long time because of Magnaflow's great sound characteristics. Magnaflow also makes probably the best quality system as well: mirror-polished stainless steel muffler, stainless packing inside, great fit, etc.
And yes, the parts you're talking about should all mate up perfectly. The only issue you might have is fitting the catted Y to the back of the catback. But if you're looking into something like the TSP catted Y, it wouldn't be a problem (I just know that my first Pacesetter offroad Y-pipe was flared down at the end, and so was my catback, so I had to pay a muffler shop $5 to flare it outwards for me). Otherwise, Pacesetters fit great, work amazing, and give great power. With LTs, a catted Y, and Magnaflow, I bet you'd be looking at picking up around a good 40 horsepower, which you'd most certainly feel.
Any other questions, feel free to ask. Once again, welcome to the site!
Thanks for posting here and it was a great first post!
I was also going to suggest a Magnaflow catback, but I see that you're already looking in that direction. I didn't know if you wanted longtubes and new Y-pipe to go with it, but you're considering them too.
The Magnaflow on stock manifolds has a great deep rumble without being too overbearingly loud. And with Pacesetters and a catted Y, it would pick up some volume and get even deeper and meaner. I considered that setup for a very long time because of Magnaflow's great sound characteristics. Magnaflow also makes probably the best quality system as well: mirror-polished stainless steel muffler, stainless packing inside, great fit, etc. And yes, the parts you're talking about should all mate up perfectly. The only issue you might have is fitting the catted Y to the back of the catback. But if you're looking into something like the TSP catted Y, it wouldn't be a problem (I just know that my first Pacesetter offroad Y-pipe was flared down at the end, and so was my catback, so I had to pay a muffler shop $5 to flare it outwards for me). Otherwise, Pacesetters fit great, work amazing, and give great power. With LTs, a catted Y, and Magnaflow, I bet you'd be looking at picking up around a good 40 horsepower, which you'd most certainly feel.
Any other questions, feel free to ask. Once again, welcome to the site!
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: St. Louis, MO
Thanks folks, great answers just like I was expecting to see.
I'm actually looking forward to trying to do this myself, I just want to make sure I've got it thought through.
BTW, I'm not at all looking for open cutouts Remember what I said about the dogs? I'm looking for a sound at idle that I can like and a sound on the highway that I can at least hear. I swear the car on the highway is so quiet you can't hear the exhaust at all.
I've also noticed over the last several months that the power has seemed to drop off somewwhat. I don't know whether it's time for plugs or if the A4 trans is getting soft or what. It's just not as snappy as I remember it being only a few thousand miles ago. So I'm looking forward to doing a little sneakin' & tweakin'.
Thanks again to all.
I'm actually looking forward to trying to do this myself, I just want to make sure I've got it thought through.
BTW, I'm not at all looking for open cutouts
Remember what I said about the dogs? I'm looking for a sound at idle that I can like and a sound on the highway that I can at least hear. I swear the car on the highway is so quiet you can't hear the exhaust at all.I've also noticed over the last several months that the power has seemed to drop off somewwhat. I don't know whether it's time for plugs or if the A4 trans is getting soft or what. It's just not as snappy as I remember it being only a few thousand miles ago. So I'm looking forward to doing a little sneakin' & tweakin'.
Thanks again to all.
since you're going with headers now would be a good time to change plugs and maybe wires also.the pacesetters are great headers and almost install themselves,unlike my qtps.you have chosen a good combo,even though i'm partial to the hooker catback.
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you will still need rear O2 sims or a tune. because the placement of the cats in most LT Y pipes is to far from the motor for the O2's to function properly. A tune would benefit you in several ways. you'll make more power, most cars run rich after header installs which would also make it harder to pass a sniffer test. And you can have the rear O2 tuned out, since they perform no function in engine management, they are only a tattler to set off the SES light. I just put pacesetters on my 99 two weeks ago they went on easy as can be for a header install. If you don't want them to bang the floor I would recomend doing poly motor mounts, they cost $50 and you might as well change them while the exhaust is off. I would also choose the magnaflow catback. But a elec cutout and magnaflow or stock catback would be nice. right now I have the e cutout and a flowmaster all I have to do touch a switch and I have to radically different exhaust systems
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: St. Louis, MO
LT1Formula2000, thanks for the info on the motor mounts. I hadn't thought of that.
You mentioned requiring a tune to better utilize the performance mods, etc. Assuming I could find a place to get that done, how long does it usually take and about how much cash am I looking at for a tune?
Thanks.
-- Ed
You mentioned requiring a tune to better utilize the performance mods, etc. Assuming I could find a place to get that done, how long does it usually take and about how much cash am I looking at for a tune?
Thanks.
-- Ed
where are you located? there are several options there is the mail order tune where you send the PCM to the tuner, I would not reccomend this option, this is something you would use if say you put a cam in the car and wantied it to be drivable until you could get to a tuner. the other ways are dyno tuning or tuning yourself,which you have to by the software and doesn't pay off unless you plan on doing many more mods and different set ups. dyno tuning seems like the best for you, personally i have never paid for dyno tuning so I have no idea what it will cost. Since you only did headers though and just need the rear O2's tuned and the A/F ratio corrected it shouldn't take long and only require a few pulls on the dyno. I between strapping the car down doing the pulls and tuning probably around an hour.
oh and on the mounts some you might hear some say they make the car vibrate some say they don't. In my car I have them and a poly trans mount and don't notice any vibration that bothers me at all. however the last few cars I've owned and drove have had a mid sized(23~) cam in them.
oh and on the mounts some you might hear some say they make the car vibrate some say they don't. In my car I have them and a poly trans mount and don't notice any vibration that bothers me at all. however the last few cars I've owned and drove have had a mid sized(23~) cam in them.
A tune usually runs around $4-500 for a dyno tune with wideband
FWIW if you are thinking of doing other mods ie cam, heads, stall, rear gears you might want to wait until you get it all done, then get it tuned.
Headers and exhaust don't usually require a tune, but it will help get the most out of them, if headers are all you're going to do, then check out the pcm and tuning forum, they have a sticky that will locate sponsors near you (enter your zip code and the miles and it comes up with who's within that mileage) alternatively you can post in the regional section, to see if anyone has a tuning suite nearby
As far as the chosen parts fitting together, I'd bet you'll be fine in that aspect, I've pacesetters and a TSP Rumbler, and it all fit fine together
BTW you might want to look into getting the bosch 13111 o2 sensor for your fronts, they are vette rears, and use a higher wattage heater, to help keep the insufficient switching code from popping up (the wires are also longer so you won't need extensions)
FWIW if you are thinking of doing other mods ie cam, heads, stall, rear gears you might want to wait until you get it all done, then get it tuned.
Headers and exhaust don't usually require a tune, but it will help get the most out of them, if headers are all you're going to do, then check out the pcm and tuning forum, they have a sticky that will locate sponsors near you (enter your zip code and the miles and it comes up with who's within that mileage) alternatively you can post in the regional section, to see if anyone has a tuning suite nearby
As far as the chosen parts fitting together, I'd bet you'll be fine in that aspect, I've pacesetters and a TSP Rumbler, and it all fit fine together
BTW you might want to look into getting the bosch 13111 o2 sensor for your fronts, they are vette rears, and use a higher wattage heater, to help keep the insufficient switching code from popping up (the wires are also longer so you won't need extensions)
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
Would you be interested in learning to tune yourself...?
If you would, you could purchase a tuning software package and a wideband O2 sensor (see stickies in PCM & Diagnostics section);
it may seem expensive (1.5 x the cost of a shop tune), but you'll save money in the long term, you'll learn how to tune (that's priceless), you'll be able to tune at will and at any time you install a mod.
If you would, you could purchase a tuning software package and a wideband O2 sensor (see stickies in PCM & Diagnostics section);
it may seem expensive (1.5 x the cost of a shop tune), but you'll save money in the long term, you'll learn how to tune (that's priceless), you'll be able to tune at will and at any time you install a mod.
While the long tube route is certainly a consideration why not just start with a great catback like the GMMG? If you do decide later to go to long tubes it is still a great sounding exhaust. Yes, it's pricey but keep your eye on the for sale section they pop up all the time. You might also consider doing a day trip and go through every junkyard in your area. I found mine for 75 bucks although I had to take it off myself.
I'm doing long tubes and a catted Y next year but I wanted a little more volume than my old Dual/Dual and the GMMG is an awesome exhaust. Low rumble at idle, Not real obnoxious under 3k, screams above 3k and very little drone on the highway in an M6 under 80 mph. When the cops are around just lift your foot and it is barely noticeable. Just another idea.
Let me add that anytime you go to long tubes there is always a chance you will get some banging from under the car. I think that is mostly due to the larger y pipes but keep that in mind if you are really concerned about that.
Oh, and not having cats is illegal. Whether or not your area does a visual inspection is another story. I'm not a tree hugger or anything but it is a fact that every car after a certain year (75 or 76 I think) must have cats on it to be street legal. In some states just moving the cats from the stock location is illegal. Like I said you may not have a visual inspection and it's totally your call but not having cats on any 98-02 fbody IS illegal in all 50 states. Not having cats will also contribute to rasp.
I'm doing long tubes and a catted Y next year but I wanted a little more volume than my old Dual/Dual and the GMMG is an awesome exhaust. Low rumble at idle, Not real obnoxious under 3k, screams above 3k and very little drone on the highway in an M6 under 80 mph. When the cops are around just lift your foot and it is barely noticeable. Just another idea.
Let me add that anytime you go to long tubes there is always a chance you will get some banging from under the car. I think that is mostly due to the larger y pipes but keep that in mind if you are really concerned about that.
Oh, and not having cats is illegal. Whether or not your area does a visual inspection is another story. I'm not a tree hugger or anything but it is a fact that every car after a certain year (75 or 76 I think) must have cats on it to be street legal. In some states just moving the cats from the stock location is illegal. Like I said you may not have a visual inspection and it's totally your call but not having cats on any 98-02 fbody IS illegal in all 50 states. Not having cats will also contribute to rasp.
Last edited by Mike02Z; May 25, 2006 at 05:26 PM.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: St. Louis, MO
I'm truly thinking now that catback first is the way to go, then build from there.
Right now it's between the Magnaflow (still) and the Hookers.
Probably go with Mario and Ivan on this one and stay with the Magnaflow.
Thanks to all for the input.
Right now it's between the Magnaflow (still) and the Hookers.
Probably go with Mario and Ivan on this one and stay with the Magnaflow.
Thanks to all for the input.
Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,117
Likes: 3
From: Philly
Originally Posted by Hammer-Ed
I'm truly thinking now that catback first is the way to go, then build from there.
Right now it's between the Magnaflow (still) and the Hookers.
Probably go with Mario and Ivan on this one and stay with the Magnaflow.
Thanks to all for the input.
Right now it's between the Magnaflow (still) and the Hookers.
Probably go with Mario and Ivan on this one and stay with the Magnaflow.
Thanks to all for the input.
Sorry, didn't read all the posts, but here's my .02
IMO, stainless LTs are the only way to go. You won't have to worry about rust or flaking thermal coatings. With that said, Kooks and QTP catted y-pipes are EXPENSIVE!!
I finally have a set-up I'm completely happy with (except for the y-pipe banging). Kooks Lts, ORY, and SLP Dual/Dual catback. At idle it's as quiet as a mouse, driving around town it sounds very deep and mellow. Cruising around 2000 rpms, you can definately hear it, but no drone or rasp AT ALL. At WOT, she wakes up. Not as loud as my old Hooker Cat-Back, but much more refined sounding IMO.
You won't pass a visual inspection with LTs, even with a catted y-pipe. For one, the cats are "too small", and the O2 sensors are going to be too far downstream. If you only have pass a snifer test, you might get by. We don't have testing here in MI, so I'm not completely sure what they'll be looking for in MO.
I also have to add that I've got a 3600 stall converter, so when driving normally around town my car will sound much louder than one without a converter (until it locks up of course).
IMO, stainless LTs are the only way to go. You won't have to worry about rust or flaking thermal coatings. With that said, Kooks and QTP catted y-pipes are EXPENSIVE!!
I finally have a set-up I'm completely happy with (except for the y-pipe banging). Kooks Lts, ORY, and SLP Dual/Dual catback. At idle it's as quiet as a mouse, driving around town it sounds very deep and mellow. Cruising around 2000 rpms, you can definately hear it, but no drone or rasp AT ALL. At WOT, she wakes up. Not as loud as my old Hooker Cat-Back, but much more refined sounding IMO.
You won't pass a visual inspection with LTs, even with a catted y-pipe. For one, the cats are "too small", and the O2 sensors are going to be too far downstream. If you only have pass a snifer test, you might get by. We don't have testing here in MI, so I'm not completely sure what they'll be looking for in MO.
I also have to add that I've got a 3600 stall converter, so when driving normally around town my car will sound much louder than one without a converter (until it locks up of course).
On The Tree
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
From: Old Bridge "Raceway Park" N.J.
Originally Posted by Hammer-Ed
My 2002 TA is out of warranty and I have decided that I'm sick and tired of the non-existent exhaust rumble of the stock exhaust....
I have done nothing but add a SLP lid and K&N to the car.
I have done nothing but add a SLP lid and K&N to the car.
TO MY KNOLEDGE YOUR NOT GONNA PASS THE SNIFFER WITH LONGTUBES
Originally Posted by Hammer-Ed
Well as you can see, it's my first post but rest assured that I've been studying this forum intensely for several days now.
My 2002 TA is out of warranty and I have decided that I'm sick and tired of the non-existent exhaust rumble of the stock exhaust. It's a ramair WS6 with 30,000 miles. I've listened to as many sound clips as I can stand and read as many reviews and how-to's as I can manage and I just want to get it done.
Except, I still don't know what I want.
I DO know that:
I have done nothing but add a SLP lid and K&N to the car.
I want a louder rumble without getting tickets or scaring the dogs.
I want to increase street power and drivability.
I want no rasp or vibrations.
I want no knocking on the subframe or suspension.
I want no issues passing state mandated sniffer tests.
Given these parameters I'm guessing I should be looking at a set of headers with emission sensor fittings, a catted Y-Pipe and an exhaust system.
Will the Pacesetter LT's with the TSP catted y-pipe and a Magnaflow back end system all work together? I see the PS LT's are a widely liked and accepted solution here on the forum and the Magnaflows are really more of a "as you like it" kind of decision. It's the mating up of all of these parts that's got me worried.
Will this system bolt up without a great deal of hassle? It has to bolt together until I can get to a weld shop.
Will this investment provide enough street HP to be really noticable or am I wasting money?
To keep it emission legal, I know I'm going to need to extend the O2 sensor cables but what's the deal with O2 sims? Do I need them as well?
I'm fairly competent under a car but have no computer or tuning capabilities and wonder how do I go about gettiing the maximum out of the investment. How does one go about finding a tuner?
Thanks to all for any help and encouragement.
Have a nice holiday weekend.
My 2002 TA is out of warranty and I have decided that I'm sick and tired of the non-existent exhaust rumble of the stock exhaust. It's a ramair WS6 with 30,000 miles. I've listened to as many sound clips as I can stand and read as many reviews and how-to's as I can manage and I just want to get it done.
Except, I still don't know what I want.
I DO know that:
I have done nothing but add a SLP lid and K&N to the car.
I want a louder rumble without getting tickets or scaring the dogs.
I want to increase street power and drivability.
I want no rasp or vibrations.
I want no knocking on the subframe or suspension.
I want no issues passing state mandated sniffer tests.
Given these parameters I'm guessing I should be looking at a set of headers with emission sensor fittings, a catted Y-Pipe and an exhaust system.
Will the Pacesetter LT's with the TSP catted y-pipe and a Magnaflow back end system all work together? I see the PS LT's are a widely liked and accepted solution here on the forum and the Magnaflows are really more of a "as you like it" kind of decision. It's the mating up of all of these parts that's got me worried.
Will this system bolt up without a great deal of hassle? It has to bolt together until I can get to a weld shop.
Will this investment provide enough street HP to be really noticable or am I wasting money?
To keep it emission legal, I know I'm going to need to extend the O2 sensor cables but what's the deal with O2 sims? Do I need them as well?
I'm fairly competent under a car but have no computer or tuning capabilities and wonder how do I go about gettiing the maximum out of the investment. How does one go about finding a tuner?
Thanks to all for any help and encouragement.
Have a nice holiday weekend.