Dont use this mod!!!! Free Ram Air is Bad
i know i don't. 
08-16-2006, 10:19 AM
#63
I'm not disagreeing that the FRA causes the IATs to increase because I never logged my IATs without it. However I think the performance difference on a naturally aspirated car with a factory tune with 100 degree IATs vs 110 degree IATs is non existant.
Say Johnny Genius is putting down 450hp and tuned it himself. He did his tuning in 35 degree weather, but now its summer in Houston. He may notice a difference as will the guy running 12psi. In my experience actually tuning and logging, on N/A cars, the IAT difference (+or- 10 degrees) isn't a life changer. You are not going to get knock retard because of the IAT temp difference caused by the FRA unless your car has a crazy tune or forced induction. I am running 11.5:1 compression in stop and go Houston traffic with FRA and 100+ degree ambient temps and I get NO KNOCK RETARD.
Now we come to you. You have never used FRA/FTRA/WHATEVERRA nor have you logged the IATs and KR. You get your information from surfing the board. Thats great, you just absord what you read, you don't look at the whole situation. I am willing to bet there are lots of guys out there whose IATs increased due to FRA. I bet of that group, there are less that actually had a performance issue with it. And finally of that group, I would bet almost all of them were running a custom tune or forced induction.
Say Johnny Genius is putting down 450hp and tuned it himself. He did his tuning in 35 degree weather, but now its summer in Houston. He may notice a difference as will the guy running 12psi. In my experience actually tuning and logging, on N/A cars, the IAT difference (+or- 10 degrees) isn't a life changer. You are not going to get knock retard because of the IAT temp difference caused by the FRA unless your car has a crazy tune or forced induction. I am running 11.5:1 compression in stop and go Houston traffic with FRA and 100+ degree ambient temps and I get NO KNOCK RETARD.
Now we come to you. You have never used FRA/FTRA/WHATEVERRA nor have you logged the IATs and KR. You get your information from surfing the board. Thats great, you just absord what you read, you don't look at the whole situation. I am willing to bet there are lots of guys out there whose IATs increased due to FRA. I bet of that group, there are less that actually had a performance issue with it. And finally of that group, I would bet almost all of them were running a custom tune or forced induction.
08-16-2006, 10:28 AM
#66
12 Second Club
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 1,369
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jesus H. Christ, guys...
This isn't an issue to turn into dicks over, ****.
Tim's car is progressing into a drag only car is why we're worried about his IAT's so much. We want colder air and we've got a better way to do it.
If you've got it and like it, cool. If you don't have it, cool.
****, I think I just walked back into 9th grade to hear the kids arguing about engine theory.
This isn't an issue to turn into dicks over, ****.
Tim's car is progressing into a drag only car is why we're worried about his IAT's so much. We want colder air and we've got a better way to do it.
If you've got it and like it, cool. If you don't have it, cool.
****, I think I just walked back into 9th grade to hear the kids arguing about engine theory.
08-16-2006, 10:38 AM
#67
Originally Posted by MrDude_1
so am i the only one in this thread who knows that the IAT sensor doesnt change temp quickly and has a "flywheel" effect to change??
aka it still reads one temp as the air going over it cools it down or heats it up.....
aka it still reads one temp as the air going over it cools it down or heats it up.....
08-16-2006, 10:46 AM
#68
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
Perhaps its not instantaneous, but i think its quick enough. im sure anyone who runs a dryshot on a vette with integrated MAF+IAT will attest that the IAT reads the drop in temps from the spray pretty quickly. I think the flywheel effect youre talking about is just teh accumulation of a big volume of heated air. It takes the engine a while to chew through all the heated airmass in front of the radiator and in the airbox. And as cool air starts to replace the injested hot air, it diffuses with the hot air. Thats why the temps will gradually increase rather than hitting a brick wall of cold air when you get on the gas again.
i disagree with everything else you said there.. theres not a hot mass of air there when you're moving at all.
08-16-2006, 10:49 AM
#69
Originally Posted by MrDude_1
im sure you'll agree that a cold spray of nitrous cools off the sensor alot faster then air thats 15* diff in temp....
i disagree with everything else you said there.. theres not a hot mass of air there when you're moving at all.
i disagree with everything else you said there.. theres not a hot mass of air there when you're moving at all.
08-16-2006, 10:49 AM
#70
In response to CamTom....You proved my point....Since this is a drag only car, I would assume that you are less concerned with daily driving conditions in exchange for power potential and you want to run as much timing as you can get away with. Nothing wrong with that, I would expect the higher IATs to affect the car in your case.
The IAT sensor does not react quickly, but it doesn't take 3-4 minutes to drop back down. I logged yesterday afternoon. Sitting at the stop light it took 30 secish to come up and about the same time to come back down. Definitely too long for the guy worried about his 1/4 mi ET. But we are talking about a difference of 20 degrees tops between IAT measured air at stop vs actual ambient temp during cruise. If you dramatically increased that temp difference because of a nitrous shot, I'm sure the logged IATs would move more quickly.
Air being sucked through the box and air leaving a car with the windows down is apples to oranges.
The IAT sensor does not react quickly, but it doesn't take 3-4 minutes to drop back down. I logged yesterday afternoon. Sitting at the stop light it took 30 secish to come up and about the same time to come back down. Definitely too long for the guy worried about his 1/4 mi ET. But we are talking about a difference of 20 degrees tops between IAT measured air at stop vs actual ambient temp during cruise. If you dramatically increased that temp difference because of a nitrous shot, I'm sure the logged IATs would move more quickly.
Air being sucked through the box and air leaving a car with the windows down is apples to oranges.
08-16-2006, 01:18 PM
#71
Cheers
Originally Posted by SilverSierra
Choco you are a self proclaimed Guru. Whatever your topic of the day is, you are the new expert. Be it the ever technical Sea Foam topic or your oil threads or now the FRA mod, its always something and you are always right. Just take it easy man, 1/2 the things you read on this site are false.
god damn, I could swear I wrote that
08-16-2006, 03:20 PM
#72
Originally Posted by ilirw325
god damn, I could swear I wrote that
i know i didnt write that... its far to kind sounding to come from me.
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
Ever notice how it takes a minute for all teh air inside the car to cool down when you first unroll the windows on a hot day? It is my opinion that something very similar happens in front of the radiator and in teh airbox. I do not believe the heat diffuses that fast.
see, i have a convertible. i take the top down before i get in, and poof, its INSTANTLY cooler in there.
but thats a bad example.
a better one would be my convertible as i drove it last year... the back window was out of it.
so, if i got in the car, it would be hot in there.. roll the windows down and poof, the instant i started moving, all the hot air went out the back window area (the radiator) and the cool air came in from the windows.. it took almost no time at all.
in the end though, theres nothign to really argue about... you can see the ET drop, and if you think theres an improvement by not pulling air off the radiator, you can always make/add a duct... a friend of mine has had the upper 1/3 of his radiator blocked off now for years... on a daily driver.. and for thoes curious, he still has yet to have any cooling problem...
08-16-2006, 04:03 PM
#73
Originally Posted by SilverSierra
Choco you are a self proclaimed Guru. Whatever your topic of the day is, you are the new expert. Be it the ever technical Sea Foam topic or your oil threads or now the FRA mod, its always something and you are always right. Just take it easy man, 1/2 the things you read on this site are false.
Originally Posted by ilirw325
god damn, I could swear I wrote that
Originally Posted by MrDude_1
i know i didnt write that... its far to kind sounding to come from me.
Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
some people are just totally full of **** and can't stand that they just may be wrong about something.
Back on topic...
You guys can argue about IAT temps all day long. What matters to me is ET. I ran faster with the FRA mod. This was back before I had HPTuners and anyway of knowing what my IATs were. Don't get so caught up with the computer **** and forget about the clock. My $.02
08-16-2006, 06:22 PM
#74
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seattle,Wa.
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did the FRA mod a couple of months after I purchased the T/A with 4 miles on it. Not only could I tell the difference in throttle response, my wife noticed the car was faster and I didn't even tell her I did anything to the car. She says to me" did you do something to the car to make it faster?" That was proof enough for me. I also raced a factory stock WS6 on a 1/8 mi. track and all I had was a LM catback, FRA mod and beat him by a car length everytime we raced, both were A4. My T/A runs like a **** with no knock and no problems overheating while waiting in line to race on a hot summer day.
I like the FRA mod, it's a hell of a mod for free.
That was proof enough for me. I also raced a factory stock WS6 on a 1/8 mi. track and all I had was a LM catback, FRA mod and beat him by a car length everytime we raced, both were A4. My T/A runs like a **** with no knock and no problems overheating while waiting in line to race on a hot summer day.I like the FRA mod, it's a hell of a mod for free.
08-16-2006, 07:08 PM
#75
On The Tree
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OOh, the FRA mod is soooo controversial. 
Any time it comes up for discussion it turns into a pissing contest.
I had it done, and then I switched to SSRA. For the record, I wouldn't do the FRA without some kind of CAI.
I haven't heard of any tangible gains with the FRA alone, aside from butt-o-meter gains, and they're not worth ****. I'm not saying its never been proven, but I've read alot of FRA info when I first got the car, and it was mostly "I here it's worth a couple of rwhp" type thing.
Its not that big a deal one way or the other. I think people do it, convince themselves it helped, and than get pissed when someone suggests that they wasted their time and would be better off stock. Its louder with the FRA, so thats part of the "I could tell it was pulling way harder!" reponses from people new to the high speed world of FRA.
Any time it comes up for discussion it turns into a pissing contest.I had it done, and then I switched to SSRA. For the record, I wouldn't do the FRA without some kind of CAI.
I haven't heard of any tangible gains with the FRA alone, aside from butt-o-meter gains, and they're not worth ****. I'm not saying its never been proven, but I've read alot of FRA info when I first got the car, and it was mostly "I here it's worth a couple of rwhp" type thing.
Its not that big a deal one way or the other. I think people do it, convince themselves it helped, and than get pissed when someone suggests that they wasted their time and would be better off stock. Its louder with the FRA, so thats part of the "I could tell it was pulling way harder!" reponses from people new to the high speed world of FRA.
08-16-2006, 07:17 PM
#76
i should note that i have only a unbias opinion based on what ive seen at the track... (battery operated dremels do allow back to back testing... lol)
why am i unbias?
because i dont even have a 4thgen... my car breathes thru a 6" wide,16" long donkey dong looking air filter.
why am i unbias?
because i dont even have a 4thgen... my car breathes thru a 6" wide,16" long donkey dong looking air filter.
08-16-2006, 08:46 PM
#78
Rehab is for quitters...
iTrader: (57)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SatanzWS6
i highly recommend the FRA mod. ive beat all kinds of imports with just this mod..... or maybe its cuz i drive a LS1....who knows.
That is sig material right there! 
08-16-2006, 10:00 PM
#80
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
FRA has both advantages and disadvantages.
FTRA has both advantages and disadvantages.
Leaving it stock has both advantages and disadvantages.
In the end youre arguing over a mod that at best makes a couple of HP at high speed. Small potatos for you guys to spend this much time worrying about it. your efforts are better spent elsewhere.
FTRA has both advantages and disadvantages.
Leaving it stock has both advantages and disadvantages.
In the end youre arguing over a mod that at best makes a couple of HP at high speed. Small potatos for you guys to spend this much time worrying about it. your efforts are better spent elsewhere.