View Poll Results: Which is better?
BG Ram Air
32
50.79%
SSRA
31
49.21%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll
BG Ram Air vs SSRA
An EXPERT at 19 years old! 
How does that feel boss? Just think how bright you'll be when you grow up
You're the one that posted a couple up that FTRA = ****
Seems like a 180 decision all of a sudden there MR EXPERT
How does that feel boss? Just think how bright you'll be when you grow up
You're the one that posted a couple up that FTRA = ****
Seems like a 180 decision all of a sudden there MR EXPERT
Originally Posted by 1QUIKWS6
An EXPERT at 19 years old!
How does that feel boss? Just think how bright you'll be when you grow up
You're the one that posted a couple up that FTRA = ****
Seems like a 180 decision all of a sudden there MR EXPERT
How does that feel boss? Just think how bright you'll be when you grow up
You're the one that posted a couple up that FTRA = ****
Seems like a 180 decision all of a sudden there MR EXPERT
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,216
Likes: 236
From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
No matter what kind of "Ram Air" CAI set-up you have, any power increase comes from cooler, denser, air getting to the motor. Forget about "pressurization." What you want is a straight shot of the coolest possible air to the intake. We can argue about what system does that best.
Last edited by RevGTO; Feb 24, 2007 at 08:39 PM.
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (9)
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Likes: 2
From: Indianapolis
Originally Posted by Fast Toys Performance Parts
The FTRA goes all the way down to the lower plastic air deflector. Since Fbodies are bottom breathers for cooling, that is the area that has the most airflow and the FTRA takes advantage of that. Perhaps you are thinking of the SLP cold air kit that only sits half way up the radiator and doesn't put itself into the path of oncoming air.
Sorry but the factory air hoods (modified or not) are not high enough off the hood to capture any high speed air. They sit in the boundry layer of air. That is why in the muscle car days, everyone went to cowl induction instead. The only way to make a forward facing hood scoop work is to have it high off the hood (like NHRA cars).
We can understand that you are not interested in the product but when someone comes on says it is crap or doesn't work, we have to step in and clarify how the product does work.
The top half of the SSRA is almost identical to the FTRA... yes, they copied that part from us! The only different between the products is that they went with a visible scoop under the bumber and made their part out of plastic. Ours is more stealth, made of T304 stainless steel, cheaper and includes a block off plate. If you ran them back to back, I doubt you would see any performance difference because the designs are so similiar. With that being said, spend your money were you like. It's your choice.
Sorry but the factory air hoods (modified or not) are not high enough off the hood to capture any high speed air. They sit in the boundry layer of air. That is why in the muscle car days, everyone went to cowl induction instead. The only way to make a forward facing hood scoop work is to have it high off the hood (like NHRA cars).
We can understand that you are not interested in the product but when someone comes on says it is crap or doesn't work, we have to step in and clarify how the product does work.
The top half of the SSRA is almost identical to the FTRA... yes, they copied that part from us! The only different between the products is that they went with a visible scoop under the bumber and made their part out of plastic. Ours is more stealth, made of T304 stainless steel, cheaper and includes a block off plate. If you ran them back to back, I doubt you would see any performance difference because the designs are so similiar. With that being said, spend your money were you like. It's your choice.
You are 100 % correct that incoming air will not achieve 1 psi of boost until speeds are extremely high (I think 120-140 MPH from memory). However, you are missing the fact that other than all out race engines, most race engines are not even close to 100 % volumetric efficient. This means that each cylinder (under vacuum and pressure of the atmosphere) does not draw in 100 % of it's displacement. This = lost power, lost fuel economy etc.
A more efficient intake system is going to increase that # towards or exceeding 100 %. This equals more power. If you read the install university article, they found VE improvements on the FTRA even in the 1/8 mile which will improve dramatically in the 1/4 mile which has higher speeds. Combine that with a less restrictive intake (engine is doing less work, more available airflow, "some" degree of positive pressurization, colder air, larger plenum = more horspower, better throttle response, better fuel economy.
We have done extensive testing on the kit, had independent write ups and even done testing to determine which lid works best with the kit. We've been selling them since 1998. Do a search and try to find one post where someone that ACTUALLY BOUGHT THE KIT says that it sucks. You will not find one because those people were happy with the kit. The product works and works well.
If you would like to try it, we'll give you the skeptics discount
A more efficient intake system is going to increase that # towards or exceeding 100 %. This equals more power. If you read the install university article, they found VE improvements on the FTRA even in the 1/8 mile which will improve dramatically in the 1/4 mile which has higher speeds. Combine that with a less restrictive intake (engine is doing less work, more available airflow, "some" degree of positive pressurization, colder air, larger plenum = more horspower, better throttle response, better fuel economy.
We have done extensive testing on the kit, had independent write ups and even done testing to determine which lid works best with the kit. We've been selling them since 1998. Do a search and try to find one post where someone that ACTUALLY BOUGHT THE KIT says that it sucks. You will not find one because those people were happy with the kit. The product works and works well.
If you would like to try it, we'll give you the skeptics discount
Originally Posted by Fast Toys Performance Parts
The top half of the SSRA is almost identical to the FTRA... yes, they copied that part from us! The only different between the products is that they went with a visible scoop under the bumber and made their part out of plastic. Ours is more stealth, made of T304 stainless steel, cheaper and includes a block off plate. If you ran them back to back, I doubt you would see any performance difference because the designs are so similiar. With that being said, spend your money were you like. It's your choice.
OK, Phil(Fast Toys) I guess were back at it.
I never copied ANYBODIES cold air intake, and I'm sick of you saying that I did. When I designed mine I was using aluminum and flexible gutters that I bought at Home Depot. I actually designed the scoop first to direct air up into the FRA mod. I decided to make a better version of my scoop. I used the old one to install under the airfilter. It's really not that hard to design when you look at the airflow after doing the FRA mod. I was too poor to buy any mods at the time and didn't know anybody with one on their car. I was living in Memphis where I didn't know a soul until I joined the local F body club there. This was after I designed my original SSRA.
A) I have yet to see anybody hydrolock their motor with my SSRA on their car. Please show me a thread. I can think of a couple different threads I saw on LS1.com where this happened with your product( I remember the one guy who was driving under a bridge and drove through a large puddle after a heavy rainfall. He then siezed his motor with your FTRA). The problem with your is the extension piece. This attaches to the airdam, which hangs significantly lower than the scoop on my SSRA. On a stock height car, the SSRA is 7" off the ground, and the airdam is about 4". If you were to hit a 4" puddle with your system it acts as a giant scoop directing the water up into the engine. Also, the scoop on the SSRA is much farther ahead of the wheels than the airdam where your extension attaches. When someone hits a puddle with their wheels water is much more likely to be directed into your FTRA as the airdam is almost parallel with the front wheels. It would have to go forward towards my SSRA scoop and then reverse direction into it, for the SSRA to take in water. Kind of like the magic bullet from the Kennedy assassination.
B) As far as stealth goes, from this picture that I attached of an LS1Tech member, you would have to be laying down to really notice the SSRA. Also in the picture you can see the airdam and how much lower it is compared to the SSRA. This is where the FTRA extension attaches. Now we can see why there have been some instances of hydrolock with the FTRA.
C) My product's made in America, unlike the FTRA which comes from Canada.
Phil, I thought we had a truce going for the last few years, but I guess my SSRA is really cutting into your sales. In fact, I emailed you a few months back saying I was sorry for some of the stuff I said about your product when I first started making them.
Selling SSRAs for me is just a little thing I came up with. I make a few extra bucks my wife doesn't know about to spend on my Camaro.
Last edited by ss1le02; Feb 24, 2007 at 08:47 PM.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (9)
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,425
Likes: 2
From: Indianapolis
Originally Posted by ss1le02
OK, Phil(Fast Toys) I guess were back at it.
I never copied ANYBODIES cold air intake, and I'm sick of you saying that I did. When I designed mine I was using aluminum and flexible gutters that I bought at Home Depot. I actually designed the scoop first to direct air up into the FRA mod. I decided to make a better version of my scoop. I used the old one to install under the airfilter. It's really not that hard to design when you look at the airflow after doing the FRA mod. I was to poor to buy any mods at the time and didn't know anybody with one on their car. I was living in Memphis where I didn't know a soul until I joined the local F body club there. This was after I designed my original SSRA.
A) I have yet to see anybody hydrolock their motor with my SSRA on their car. Please show me a thread. I can think of a couple different threads I saw on LS1.com where this happened with your product( I remember the one guy who was driving under a bridge and drove through a large puddle after a heavy rainfall. He then siezed his motor with your FTRA). The problem with your is the extension piece. This attaches to the airdam, which hangs significantly lower than the scoop on my SSRA. On a stock height car, the SSRA is 7" off the ground, and the airdam is about 4". If you were to hit a 4" puddle with your system it acts as a giant scoop directing the water up into the engine. Also, the scoop on the SSRA is much farther ahead of the wheels than the airdam where your extension attaches. When someone hits a puddle with their wheels water is much more likely to be directed into your FTRA as the airdam is almost parallel with the front wheels. It would have to go forward towards my SSRA scoop and then reverse direction into it, for the SSRA to take in water. Kind of like the magic bullet from the Kennedy assassination.
B) As far as stealth goes, from this picture that I attached of an LS1Tech member, you would have to be laying down to really notice the SSRA. Also in the picture you can see the airdam and how much lower it is compared to the SSRA. This is where the FTRA extension attaches. Now we can see why there have been some instances of hydrolock with the FTRA.
C) My product's made in America, unlike the FTRA which comes from Canada.
Phil, I thought we had a truce going for the last few years, but I guess my SSRA is really cutting into your sales. In fact, I emailed you a few months back saying I was sorry for some of the stuff I said about your product when I first started making them.
Selling SSRAs for me is just a little thing I came up with. I make a few extra bucks my wife doesn't know about to spend on my Camaro.
I never copied ANYBODIES cold air intake, and I'm sick of you saying that I did. When I designed mine I was using aluminum and flexible gutters that I bought at Home Depot. I actually designed the scoop first to direct air up into the FRA mod. I decided to make a better version of my scoop. I used the old one to install under the airfilter. It's really not that hard to design when you look at the airflow after doing the FRA mod. I was to poor to buy any mods at the time and didn't know anybody with one on their car. I was living in Memphis where I didn't know a soul until I joined the local F body club there. This was after I designed my original SSRA.
A) I have yet to see anybody hydrolock their motor with my SSRA on their car. Please show me a thread. I can think of a couple different threads I saw on LS1.com where this happened with your product( I remember the one guy who was driving under a bridge and drove through a large puddle after a heavy rainfall. He then siezed his motor with your FTRA). The problem with your is the extension piece. This attaches to the airdam, which hangs significantly lower than the scoop on my SSRA. On a stock height car, the SSRA is 7" off the ground, and the airdam is about 4". If you were to hit a 4" puddle with your system it acts as a giant scoop directing the water up into the engine. Also, the scoop on the SSRA is much farther ahead of the wheels than the airdam where your extension attaches. When someone hits a puddle with their wheels water is much more likely to be directed into your FTRA as the airdam is almost parallel with the front wheels. It would have to go forward towards my SSRA scoop and then reverse direction into it, for the SSRA to take in water. Kind of like the magic bullet from the Kennedy assassination.
B) As far as stealth goes, from this picture that I attached of an LS1Tech member, you would have to be laying down to really notice the SSRA. Also in the picture you can see the airdam and how much lower it is compared to the SSRA. This is where the FTRA extension attaches. Now we can see why there have been some instances of hydrolock with the FTRA.
C) My product's made in America, unlike the FTRA which comes from Canada.
Phil, I thought we had a truce going for the last few years, but I guess my SSRA is really cutting into your sales. In fact, I emailed you a few months back saying I was sorry for some of the stuff I said about your product when I first started making them.
Selling SSRAs for me is just a little thing I came up with. I make a few extra bucks my wife doesn't know about to spend on my Camaro.
This is the kind of constructive fighting i wanna hear about. so, phil, and SS settle this right here and now. is the FTRA or SSRA better? The SSRA to me looks hands down better because it faces towards the car, and has a gap to let water drain and looks more effective and the scoop seems to me like it would be more effective.
Once we get the FTRA vs SSRA debate settled we can get back to the BGRA vs the SSRA
Originally Posted by Tainted
This is the kind of constructive fighting i wanna hear about. so, phil, and SS settle this right here and now. is the FTRA or SSRA better? The SSRA to me looks hands down better because it faces towards the car, and has a gap to let water drain and looks more effective and the scoop seems to me like it would be more effective.
Once we get the FTRA vs SSRA debate settled we can get back to the BGRA vs the SSRA
Once we get the FTRA vs SSRA debate settled we can get back to the BGRA vs the SSRA
The BGRA won't work on the other f bodies.
SSRA>FTRA/SLP
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (9)
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,425
Likes: 2
From: Indianapolis
thank you for clearing that up. unless i can find a BGRA i'll be making something up on my own, but this thread may prove helpful for people debating on the SSRA
lol the ssra creator just like went off on the fast toys guy lol 
but if you take time to read his points they all seem valid. i've also thought that ssra should be LESS resistant to sucking up water simply because when you hit a puddle it splashed BACKWARDS from the point of impact (the tires) and since the ssra is more forward than the ftra, only the ftra should be affected. i also liked finally hearing the story of how the ssra was invented. just a regular car guy making something on his own and then making a success out of it and himself (the american dream in action baby). furthermore, there's a group purchase in effect from lmperformance. They are selling them to us for $175 including shipping ($14 off their previous price). You can check out this post for more info but since everything has been finalized we're just waiting for them to make an official post about it in the group purchase section telling us how they want everything to go down. So if anyone has been interested in getting an ssra, now is the time....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/group-purchase-requests/649693-lm-performance-can-we-get-ssra-gp-going.html
but if you take time to read his points they all seem valid. i've also thought that ssra should be LESS resistant to sucking up water simply because when you hit a puddle it splashed BACKWARDS from the point of impact (the tires) and since the ssra is more forward than the ftra, only the ftra should be affected. i also liked finally hearing the story of how the ssra was invented. just a regular car guy making something on his own and then making a success out of it and himself (the american dream in action baby). furthermore, there's a group purchase in effect from lmperformance. They are selling them to us for $175 including shipping ($14 off their previous price). You can check out this post for more info but since everything has been finalized we're just waiting for them to make an official post about it in the group purchase section telling us how they want everything to go down. So if anyone has been interested in getting an ssra, now is the time....https://ls1tech.com/forums/group-purchase-requests/649693-lm-performance-can-we-get-ssra-gp-going.html
FTRA response
Originally Posted by ss1le02
OK, Phil(Fast Toys) I guess were back at it.
I never copied ANYBODIES cold air intake, and I'm sick of you saying that I did. When I designed mine I was using aluminum and flexible gutters that I bought at Home Depot. I actually designed the scoop first to direct air up into the FRA mod. I decided to make a better version of my scoop. I used the old one to install under the airfilter. It's really not that hard to design when you look at the airflow after doing the FRA mod. I was too poor to buy any mods at the time and didn't know anybody with one on their car. I was living in Memphis where I didn't know a soul until I joined the local F body club there. This was after I designed my original SSRA.
I never copied ANYBODIES cold air intake, and I'm sick of you saying that I did. When I designed mine I was using aluminum and flexible gutters that I bought at Home Depot. I actually designed the scoop first to direct air up into the FRA mod. I decided to make a better version of my scoop. I used the old one to install under the airfilter. It's really not that hard to design when you look at the airflow after doing the FRA mod. I was too poor to buy any mods at the time and didn't know anybody with one on their car. I was living in Memphis where I didn't know a soul until I joined the local F body club there. This was after I designed my original SSRA.
They look pretty damn close to me! To be honest, I never bashed you about copying our design. The reason I didn't is that you did make the lower portion different. A few other companies completely 100 % copied our design (whisper for example). Hell, they even copied large portions of our instructions word for word. The comparison was only made when people say the SSRA outperforms the FTRA because of superior design. Pretty hard to believe when the upper portions are almost identical. Also, there has never been anyone who has done a back to back comparison and can substantiate any claims. it would take us about 15 mins to fabricate a scoop for the bottom of the FTRA (just like the retrofit kit you sell) but we don't do it because we honestly do not see any potential performance gain.
Like I said, I believe the performance gains between the two products would be pretty identical.
A) I have yet to see anybody hydrolock their motor with my SSRA on their car. Please show me a thread. I can think of a couple different threads I saw on LS1.com where this happened with your product( I remember the one guy who was driving under a bridge and drove through a large puddle after a heavy rainfall. He then siezed his motor with your FTRA). The problem with your is the extension piece. This attaches to the airdam, which hangs significantly lower than the scoop on my SSRA. On a stock height car, the SSRA is 7" off the ground, and the airdam is about 4". If you were to hit a 4" puddle with your system it acts as a giant scoop directing the water up into the engine. Also, the scoop on the SSRA is much farther ahead of the wheels than the airdam where your extension attaches. When someone hits a puddle with their wheels water is much more likely to be directed into your FTRA as the airdam is almost parallel with the front wheels. It would have to go forward towards my SSRA scoop and then reverse direction into it, for the SSRA to take in water. Kind of like the magic bullet from the Kennedy assassination.
We also include a stainless steel block off plate and removable front seal to disable the kit for testing or if you want added safety in poor weather driving conditions. With the front seal removed and the block off plate installed, you are back to the stock breathing set up. That's as safe as you can get.
You tell people "use the cardboard that your SSRA came in" for a block off plate. That might work in a pinch but not a very professional grade solution. It also likely saves you production costs.
Regardless, 2 out of thousands is an insignifant # of failures and both vehicles likely would have died without the FTRA installed. However, you keep mentioning it OVER and OVER. Please stop.
B) As far as stealth goes, from this picture that I attached of an LS1Tech member, you would have to be laying down to really notice the SSRA. Also in the picture you can see the airdam and how much lower it is compared to the SSRA. This is where the FTRA extension attaches. Now we can see why there have been some instances of hydrolock with the FTRA.
C) My product's made in America, unlike the FTRA which comes from Canada.
Phil, I thought we had a truce going for the last few years, but I guess my SSRA is really cutting into your sales. In fact, I emailed you a few months back saying I was sorry for some of the stuff I said about your product when I first started making them. Selling SSRAs for me is just a little thing I came up with. I make a few extra bucks my wife doesn't know about to spend on my Camaro.
If you read back in the past few threads, I have said that I believe the results from your product and ours would be identical. Again, I only point of the differences (plastic vs steel, stealth of install, price). I post just to clarify untrue facts posted about the FTRA in relation to other products.
You sent me an apology for "the childish ways your bashed the FTRA over the years". That is true, you did. You conducted your business using unethical methods and bashed our product often with comments that were not true. You felt bad for it and apologized. Thank you.
If you really want to get into it and have me explain some of those methods to the people of LS1TECH, I can do so but I consider it in bad taste and will only do so if you continue to bash my product and post things that are untrue.
Let me now address the final comment that is routinely said about the FTRA "Heat Soak". Yes, metal can heatsoak compared to plastic but the effect only lasts for a few seconds. As soon as the car begins to move again, the temps drop right down to approximately ambient. Here is a post from LS1TECH from someone that actually tested this:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...=ftra+heatsoak
With the same logic, steel will also remain cooler when the ambient temperature is lower. You can also cool the duct with ice, ice packs, C02 etc at the track for power gains.
The grand summary that consumers have the choice about where to spend their hard earned money. You point out the benefits of your product, I point out the benefits of mine and they decide.
ps. Skeptics discount available
Thanks!
Last edited by Fast Toys Performance Parts; Feb 25, 2007 at 03:36 PM.
Originally Posted by Fast Toys Performance Parts
Real CAI kit??? 
The FTRA has been track tested and proven again and again ever since we sold our fist one back in 1998. Several other companies have copied it entirely or portions of our design.
Check out www.installuniversity.com if you want an unbiased review or do a search on any LS1 Fbody forum. We stand behind our product and have never had a customer that wasn't pleased with the results.
The FTRA has been track tested and proven again and again ever since we sold our fist one back in 1998. Several other companies have copied it entirely or portions of our design.
Check out www.installuniversity.com if you want an unbiased review or do a search on any LS1 Fbody forum. We stand behind our product and have never had a customer that wasn't pleased with the results.
Originally Posted by Fast Toys Performance Parts
You are 100 % correct that incoming air will not achieve 1 psi of boost until speeds are extremely high (I think 120-140 MPH from memory). However, you are missing the fact that other than all out race engines, most race engines are not even close to 100 % volumetric efficient. This means that each cylinder (under vacuum and pressure of the atmosphere) does not draw in 100 % of it's displacement. This = lost power, lost fuel economy etc.
A more efficient intake system is going to increase that # towards or exceeding 100 %. This equals more power. If you read the install university article, they found VE improvements on the FTRA even in the 1/8 mile which will improve dramatically in the 1/4 mile which has higher speeds. Combine that with a less restrictive intake (engine is doing less work, more available airflow, "some" degree of positive pressurization, colder air, larger plenum = more horspower, better throttle response, better fuel economy.
We have done extensive testing on the kit, had independent write ups and even done testing to determine which lid works best with the kit. We've been selling them since 1998. Do a search and try to find one post where someone that ACTUALLY BOUGHT THE KIT says that it sucks. You will not find one because those people were happy with the kit. The product works and works well.
If you would like to try it, we'll give you the skeptics discount
A more efficient intake system is going to increase that # towards or exceeding 100 %. This equals more power. If you read the install university article, they found VE improvements on the FTRA even in the 1/8 mile which will improve dramatically in the 1/4 mile which has higher speeds. Combine that with a less restrictive intake (engine is doing less work, more available airflow, "some" degree of positive pressurization, colder air, larger plenum = more horspower, better throttle response, better fuel economy.
We have done extensive testing on the kit, had independent write ups and even done testing to determine which lid works best with the kit. We've been selling them since 1998. Do a search and try to find one post where someone that ACTUALLY BOUGHT THE KIT says that it sucks. You will not find one because those people were happy with the kit. The product works and works well.
If you would like to try it, we'll give you the skeptics discount
i love it. well there's currently a ssra gp running till march 16th. lmperformance is giving us a price of $175 w/ free shipping. that's $25 cheaper than their current price. anyone interested in saving $25 on a ssra check out this link
https://ls1tech.com/forums/sponsor-sales-specials/668595-ssra-gp-go.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/sponsor-sales-specials/668595-ssra-gp-go.html