K & N filter....who wants it?
11-12-2006, 11:43 PM
#42
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...i have never heard ANYBODY going to the shop or havin to rebuild an engine due to an airfilter problem....IF by chance it is lettin in dirt...it wouldnt even be enough to hurt an LS1 or any engine in its normal life sapn anyway....and besides to that comment about the "grease" spot havin more dirt...ITS DESIGNED THAT WAY GENIUS!!!...thats y they tell ya to oil it to CATCH MORE DIRT!!!! 
11-13-2006, 12:57 AM
#44
This thread is a joke.
Accelerated ring wear? Anyone have oil analysis to prove the "extra" ring wear was caused by large particulate moving into a HOT combustion chamber and adding more wear than normal?
Does anyone think that the nature of a OFF ROAD CAR RALLY had more to do with accelerated ring wear than dirty air???
Fact of the matter is that NO ONE has any really solid proof. This is just another bs thread that is a worthwhile as the tornado gave me 50HP!
Fact of the matter is, you buy a K&N so you can reuse it. If you over oil it, you f up your MAF. If you under oil it, it doesn't filter well. I drove through a construction site all summer for a good 20 miles almost each day. The inside of my lid and throttle body and intake (of which I just changed) showed no accumulation of the fine dirt that coated the **** out of everything around the engine bay. On top of that I had a fine layer of OIL in the intake due to my PCV system still sucking a bit of oil yet it was CLEAN oil for the most part with no dirt, just exhaust gas making it black but not dirt laden like earth dirt.
The K&N on the other hand has clumps of fine dirt in it from all the construction dirt dust which you can feel quite well as fine sand particulate. With my latest dyno as of a week ago, it sure shows a hell of a lot of compression loss = power loss (sarcasm) lol
I think this thread needs to be closed before the tards start spouting more pro/con that is just more internerd bs...
Accelerated ring wear? Anyone have oil analysis to prove the "extra" ring wear was caused by large particulate moving into a HOT combustion chamber and adding more wear than normal?
Does anyone think that the nature of a OFF ROAD CAR RALLY had more to do with accelerated ring wear than dirty air???
Fact of the matter is that NO ONE has any really solid proof. This is just another bs thread that is a worthwhile as the tornado gave me 50HP!
Fact of the matter is, you buy a K&N so you can reuse it. If you over oil it, you f up your MAF. If you under oil it, it doesn't filter well. I drove through a construction site all summer for a good 20 miles almost each day. The inside of my lid and throttle body and intake (of which I just changed) showed no accumulation of the fine dirt that coated the **** out of everything around the engine bay. On top of that I had a fine layer of OIL in the intake due to my PCV system still sucking a bit of oil yet it was CLEAN oil for the most part with no dirt, just exhaust gas making it black but not dirt laden like earth dirt.
The K&N on the other hand has clumps of fine dirt in it from all the construction dirt dust which you can feel quite well as fine sand particulate. With my latest dyno as of a week ago, it sure shows a hell of a lot of compression loss = power loss (sarcasm) lol
I think this thread needs to be closed before the tards start spouting more pro/con that is just more internerd bs...
11-13-2006, 03:11 AM
#46
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I guess the last thing to say is: There's always gonna be enough people to get sucked into buying things that really don't work. At least there are a growing number of people realizing the K&N is bullshit, I thought the world was turning stupid. I guess if you can't see that airflow is increased from a K&N, the dirt and debris will too. How pathetic.
And to the people who can't comprehend and read, there has been a real life test, and the K&N failed miserably over the paper filter. Go fiond it your damn self, its on this forum. Sapps.
See ya.
And to the people who can't comprehend and read, there has been a real life test, and the K&N failed miserably over the paper filter. Go fiond it your damn self, its on this forum. Sapps.
See ya.
11-13-2006, 04:26 AM
#47
Originally Posted by Quickin
I guess the last thing to say is: There's always gonna be enough people to get sucked into buying things that really don't work. At least there are a growing number of people realizing the K&N is bullshit, I thought the world was turning stupid. I guess if you can't see that airflow is increased from a K&N, the dirt and debris will too. How pathetic.
And to the people who can't comprehend and read, there has been a real life test, and the K&N failed miserably over the paper filter. Go fiond it your damn self, its on this forum. Sapps.
See ya.
And to the people who can't comprehend and read, there has been a real life test, and the K&N failed miserably over the paper filter. Go fiond it your damn self, its on this forum. Sapps.
See ya.
Then when the paper filter becomes a restriction I will be ready for a blower or something by then anyway and it won't matter.
11-13-2006, 04:27 AM
#48
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Yep your are correct. On the whole cotton weave filters (k&n or similar) all suck!!!
OEM Paper filters have been flow tested and rated to to provide enough air for upto 500bhp n/a.
Cotton weave does out flow paper, but only when clean. They clogg up very quickly and then flow way worse. But also there filtering ability is substantially less. Although for mosr road cars it is probably suficcent. If you live near the cost or somewhere hot and dusty/sandy I would however aviod any cotton weave filter.
Not too mention k&n's are expensive to buy, need cleaning more often than paper ones need replacing. Cleaning fluid and oil also cost more to buy than a paper filter. So it means $$$$$$$ for overall worse performance and more maintance. Not too mention the risk of over oiling and buggering up the MAF.
Foam filters can be quite good and have a good reputation in off road circles. Some however (notibly the earlier Vararam intake for the C5) had very very very poor filtering ability.
Good foam filters get the thubs up and are good for off roading where paper filters clog to easily if there's water about.
Metal gauze filters are for idiots and ricers only.
Synthetic weave filters (Donaldson, Blackwing CAI for C5) are probably the best. They rival paper filters in terms of filtering (possible better according to at least one source I've seen) and outflow most cotton weave filters also. This are used in heavy plant machinery and in aircraft. So they are proven, if a little on the expensive side compared to paper.
OEM Paper filters have been flow tested and rated to to provide enough air for upto 500bhp n/a.
Cotton weave does out flow paper, but only when clean. They clogg up very quickly and then flow way worse. But also there filtering ability is substantially less. Although for mosr road cars it is probably suficcent. If you live near the cost or somewhere hot and dusty/sandy I would however aviod any cotton weave filter.
Not too mention k&n's are expensive to buy, need cleaning more often than paper ones need replacing. Cleaning fluid and oil also cost more to buy than a paper filter. So it means $$$$$$$ for overall worse performance and more maintance. Not too mention the risk of over oiling and buggering up the MAF.
Foam filters can be quite good and have a good reputation in off road circles. Some however (notibly the earlier Vararam intake for the C5) had very very very poor filtering ability.
Good foam filters get the thubs up and are good for off roading where paper filters clog to easily if there's water about.
Metal gauze filters are for idiots and ricers only.
Synthetic weave filters (Donaldson, Blackwing CAI for C5) are probably the best. They rival paper filters in terms of filtering (possible better according to at least one source I've seen) and outflow most cotton weave filters also. This are used in heavy plant machinery and in aircraft. So they are proven, if a little on the expensive side compared to paper.
11-13-2006, 05:10 AM
#49
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K&N are guarenteed for a million miles. All bs aside, no matter where U live, it's ten bucks for the k&n filter charger (cleaner and oil). Water and minor moisture will wear out your paper filter and u have to replace it often. I would rather keep my K&n clean than replace it as often as my oil. If there really is any chance of particles getting in with the K&n, it's only dust and will end up at the bottom of your oil pan.
And BTW, this thread SUCKS- i'm ashamed to even put in my two cents but this has to end somewhere!
And BTW, this thread SUCKS- i'm ashamed to even put in my two cents but this has to end somewhere!
11-13-2006, 05:25 AM
#50
Originally Posted by TryingT/A
K&N are guarenteed for a million miles. All bs aside, no matter where U live, it's ten bucks for the k&n filter charger (cleaner and oil). Water and minor moisture will wear out your paper filter and u have to replace it often. I would rather keep my K&n clean than replace it as often as my oil. If there really is any chance of particles getting in with the K&n, it's only dust and will end up at the bottom of your oil pan.
And BTW, this thread SUCKS- i'm ashamed to even put in my two cents but this has to end somewhere!
And BTW, this thread SUCKS- i'm ashamed to even put in my two cents but this has to end somewhere!
I'd rather have a brand new clean paper filter then a k&n thats been washed and still has dirt particles stuck in it. I know I've owned them on two vehicles. One day I woke up and I was smarter then the day before. So I bought a paper one.
Also unless you are driving your f-body through lakes then water won't affect the paper filter. Minor moisture? I hope you aren't talking about morning dew or plain old humidity? lol
11-13-2006, 05:37 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by TryingT/A
K&N are guarenteed for a million miles.
It's not a warranty for your motor, all it means is if the k&n filter wears out (falls apart, gets a hole in it) they will replace the filter.
So the warranty is completely worthless!
Originally Posted by TryingT/A
All bs aside, no matter where U live, it's ten bucks for the k&n filter charger (cleaner and oil).
It has been proven in bench flow tests that the cotton weave filters clog up very quickly and rapidly reduce their flowing ability. Paper filters on the other hand even when over 50% clogged will still flow at pretty much the same rate.
Originally Posted by TryingT/A
Water and minor moisture will wear out your paper filter and u have to replace it often.
Well water in the intake is rare unless you are river crossing.
Originally Posted by TryingT/A
I would rather keep my K&n clean than replace it as often as my oil.
Do you work for k&n? If not why show such alligence?
Originally Posted by TryingT/A
If there really is any chance of particles getting in with the K&n, it's only dust
Many tanks operating in Desert Storm in the 90's usffered this problem and it destroyed more than a few engines.
Cars can suffer this, pop over to forums.corvetteforum.com and do a search or go and speak to Andy @ A&A Corvettes. Engine wear due to improper filtering does exist (although with the Vette the Vararam filter was to blame).
Originally Posted by TryingT/A
and will end up at the bottom of your oil pan.
How? You must either have a lot of piston play or survere piston ring wear.
To get past the piston ring the particles will grind small grooves in the cylinder wall allowing them to drop below the piston, where they can then contaminate the oil and cause excessive wear in the bearing, push rods, rockers. Infact any moving part lubricated by the engine oil.
Originally Posted by TryingT/A
And BTW, this thread SUCKS- i'm ashamed to even put in my two cents but this has to end somewhere!
11-13-2006, 06:54 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
Warrantied for what?
It's not a warranty for your motor, all it means is if the k&n filter wears out (falls apart, gets a hole in it) they will replace the filter.
So the warranty is completely worthless!
Yes, but to keep the k&n outperforming the paper filter in terms of flow it needs to be cleaned twice as often as a paper one needs replacing.
It has been proven in bench flow tests that the cotton weave filters clog up very quickly and rapidly reduce their flowing ability. Paper filters on the other hand even when over 50% clogged will still flow at pretty much the same rate.
Yes but it's still only half as frequent as what a k&n requires cleaning.
Well water in the intake is rare unless you are river crossing.
Your choice, although I daresay you are taking this topic personally as you actually have a k&n and are therefore defending it based only on personal bias.
Do you work for k&n? If not why show such alligence?
Dust, dirt, grit and sand. These can all be hostile particles and can cause excessive engine wear.
Many tanks operating in Desert Storm in the 90's usffered this problem and it destroyed more than a few engines.
Cars can suffer this, pop over to forums.corvetteforum.com and do a search or go and speak to Andy @ A&A Corvettes. Engine wear due to improper filtering does exist (although with the Vette the Vararam filter was to blame).
eh?
How? You must either have a lot of piston play or survere piston ring wear.
To get past the piston ring the particles will grind small grooves in the cylinder wall allowing them to drop below the piston, where they can then contaminate the oil and cause excessive wear in the bearing, push rods, rockers. Infact any moving part lubricated by the engine oil.
Yeah but if you wheren't being so loyal to a flawed product you'd probably learn something
It's not a warranty for your motor, all it means is if the k&n filter wears out (falls apart, gets a hole in it) they will replace the filter.
So the warranty is completely worthless!
Yes, but to keep the k&n outperforming the paper filter in terms of flow it needs to be cleaned twice as often as a paper one needs replacing.
It has been proven in bench flow tests that the cotton weave filters clog up very quickly and rapidly reduce their flowing ability. Paper filters on the other hand even when over 50% clogged will still flow at pretty much the same rate.
Yes but it's still only half as frequent as what a k&n requires cleaning.
Well water in the intake is rare unless you are river crossing.
Your choice, although I daresay you are taking this topic personally as you actually have a k&n and are therefore defending it based only on personal bias.
Do you work for k&n? If not why show such alligence?
Dust, dirt, grit and sand. These can all be hostile particles and can cause excessive engine wear.
Many tanks operating in Desert Storm in the 90's usffered this problem and it destroyed more than a few engines.
Cars can suffer this, pop over to forums.corvetteforum.com and do a search or go and speak to Andy @ A&A Corvettes. Engine wear due to improper filtering does exist (although with the Vette the Vararam filter was to blame).
eh?
How? You must either have a lot of piston play or survere piston ring wear.
To get past the piston ring the particles will grind small grooves in the cylinder wall allowing them to drop below the piston, where they can then contaminate the oil and cause excessive wear in the bearing, push rods, rockers. Infact any moving part lubricated by the engine oil.
Yeah but if you wheren't being so loyal to a flawed product you'd probably learn something
11-13-2006, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Quickin
Look at the bold....you need to read and comprehend the whole damn post.
You wanted tests, thats a ******* test you moron. A real road race car that did just as I said. The K&N was letting more dirt and road debris in, when they stuck a paper filter in there with the 3rd brand new engine they had a good compression check at the end of the race. A REAL test. Plus, dirt would get all over the dab of grease with the K&N, NOT THE PAPER FILTER.
Did you not read what I posted and just started opening your pie-hole? WTF!!!!
And K&N is still in business because people like you and many other buy into their horseshit about being better. Gains, maybe, more dirt getting through.....GUARUN-******-TEED.
.
You wanted tests, thats a ******* test you moron. A real road race car that did just as I said. The K&N was letting more dirt and road debris in, when they stuck a paper filter in there with the 3rd brand new engine they had a good compression check at the end of the race. A REAL test. Plus, dirt would get all over the dab of grease with the K&N, NOT THE PAPER FILTER.
Did you not read what I posted and just started opening your pie-hole? WTF!!!!
And K&N is still in business because people like you and many other buy into their horseshit about being better. Gains, maybe, more dirt getting through.....GUARUN-******-TEED.
.
Just calm down, and go look at my post, see where I say "look at the bold" I meant look at the bold writing! where you say, like a jackass, "(I'm pretty sure it was a K&N)" then in the next line tell us "thats 100% proof they are crap".
SO that means you think theres proof, maybe they did a test, Like I'm pretty sure you're an idiot.
And to add to this, talk about paper filters, a friend of mine has a brand new diesel truck, put a fram paper filter in it. The filter tore apart sucked into his turbo and destroyed it. Id rather have a pinch of dirt anyday...
11-13-2006, 08:51 AM
#56
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I bought a used K&N filter that did not seal against the air box. A lithium grease test revealed sections of the filter perimeter were not seating correctly. I later learned that K&N supplies a foam seal with new filters that is specifically for this issue. In other words, people who have sealing issues with the K&N should check for that foam seal. There should be no leaking with it in place.
11-13-2006, 02:15 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by TryingT/A
K&N are guarenteed for a million miles. All bs aside, no matter where U live, it's ten bucks for the k&n filter charger (cleaner and oil). Water and minor moisture will wear out your paper filter and u have to replace it often. I would rather keep my K&n clean than replace it as often as my oil. If there really is any chance of particles getting in with the K&n, it's only dust and will end up at the bottom of your oil pan.
And BTW, this thread SUCKS- i'm ashamed to even put in my two cents but this has to end somewhere!
And BTW, this thread SUCKS- i'm ashamed to even put in my two cents but this has to end somewhere!
Who the hell is ever gonna drive that much to ever use the damn warranty anyway. And it might last that long, its just a piece of **** the whole time in the protection it offers .
Last edited by Quickin; 11-13-2006 at 11:43 PM.
11-13-2006, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JDJP
Ok old man, you sound like a 16 year old.
Just calm down, and go look at my post, see where I say "look at the bold" I meant look at the bold writing! where you say, like a jackass, "(I'm pretty sure it was a K&N)" then in the next line tell us "thats 100% proof they are crap".
SO that means you think theres proof, maybe they did a test, Like I'm pretty sure you're an idiot.
And to add to this, talk about paper filters, a friend of mine has a brand new diesel truck, put a fram paper filter in it. The filter tore apart sucked into his turbo and destroyed it. Id rather have a pinch of dirt anyday...
Just calm down, and go look at my post, see where I say "look at the bold" I meant look at the bold writing! where you say, like a jackass, "(I'm pretty sure it was a K&N)" then in the next line tell us "thats 100% proof they are crap".
SO that means you think theres proof, maybe they did a test, Like I'm pretty sure you're an idiot.
And to add to this, talk about paper filters, a friend of mine has a brand new diesel truck, put a fram paper filter in it. The filter tore apart sucked into his turbo and destroyed it. Id rather have a pinch of dirt anyday...
Now thats a badass machine, if I knew you had a K&N I wouldn't run ya
.
11-13-2006, 02:18 PM
#59
Originally Posted by Quickin
K&N air filter in your sig, says it all
Now thats a badass machine, if I knew you had a K&N I wouldn't run ya
.
Now thats a badass machine, if I knew you had a K&N I wouldn't run ya
.
11-13-2006, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
Warrantied for what?
It's not a warranty for your motor, all it means is if the k&n filter wears out (falls apart, gets a hole in it) they will replace the filter.
So the warranty is completely worthless!
Yes, but to keep the k&n outperforming the paper filter in terms of flow it needs to be cleaned twice as often as a paper one needs replacing.
It has been proven in bench flow tests that the cotton weave filters clog up very quickly and rapidly reduce their flowing ability. Paper filters on the other hand even when over 50% clogged will still flow at pretty much the same rate.
Yes but it's still only half as frequent as what a k&n requires cleaning.
Well water in the intake is rare unless you are river crossing.
Your choice, although I daresay you are taking this topic personally as you actually have a k&n and are therefore defending it based only on personal bias.
Do you work for k&n? If not why show such alligence?
Dust, dirt, grit and sand. These can all be hostile particles and can cause excessive engine wear.
Many tanks operating in Desert Storm in the 90's usffered this problem and it destroyed more than a few engines.
Cars can suffer this, pop over to forums.corvetteforum.com and do a search or go and speak to Andy @ A&A Corvettes. Engine wear due to improper filtering does exist (although with the Vette the Vararam filter was to blame).
eh?
How? You must either have a lot of piston play or survere piston ring wear.
To get past the piston ring the particles will grind small grooves in the cylinder wall allowing them to drop below the piston, where they can then contaminate the oil and cause excessive wear in the bearing, push rods, rockers. Infact any moving part lubricated by the engine oil.
Yeah but if you wheren't being so loyal to a flawed product you'd probably learn something
It's not a warranty for your motor, all it means is if the k&n filter wears out (falls apart, gets a hole in it) they will replace the filter.
So the warranty is completely worthless!
Yes, but to keep the k&n outperforming the paper filter in terms of flow it needs to be cleaned twice as often as a paper one needs replacing.
It has been proven in bench flow tests that the cotton weave filters clog up very quickly and rapidly reduce their flowing ability. Paper filters on the other hand even when over 50% clogged will still flow at pretty much the same rate.
Yes but it's still only half as frequent as what a k&n requires cleaning.
Well water in the intake is rare unless you are river crossing.
Your choice, although I daresay you are taking this topic personally as you actually have a k&n and are therefore defending it based only on personal bias.
Do you work for k&n? If not why show such alligence?
Dust, dirt, grit and sand. These can all be hostile particles and can cause excessive engine wear.
Many tanks operating in Desert Storm in the 90's usffered this problem and it destroyed more than a few engines.
Cars can suffer this, pop over to forums.corvetteforum.com and do a search or go and speak to Andy @ A&A Corvettes. Engine wear due to improper filtering does exist (although with the Vette the Vararam filter was to blame).
eh?
How? You must either have a lot of piston play or survere piston ring wear.
To get past the piston ring the particles will grind small grooves in the cylinder wall allowing them to drop below the piston, where they can then contaminate the oil and cause excessive wear in the bearing, push rods, rockers. Infact any moving part lubricated by the engine oil.
Yeah but if you wheren't being so loyal to a flawed product you'd probably learn something
Filters are used as PROTECTION instruments, NOT as performance instruments. So what does K&N do, they make an air filter to flow better than paper and all the people come out of the wood work because they may pick up .5 hp, but there engines are taking a bigger hit from dirt and debris.
Man it sounds so logical, but people just don't get it. I don't know why they all don't go buy a Tornado too.
Oh well.
.