The "Y Pipe" - a flawed design?
***UPDATE***
I just got off the phone with Danny at Mufflex (really nice guy). I ordered a 4" catback w/ Magnaflow muffler... he is throwing in a sleeve to connect the 4" catback and 4" exit on the y pipe merge...
Next phone call is to American Racing Headers to order the headers/y pipe and they are fabricating the y pipe to have 3" pipes merge into the single 4".
With everyone's input and really thinking this exhaust through, I now feel that I have made the absolute best choice for maximum horsepower.
Thank you all for your input and help.
I'll update this post with lots of pictures and my thoughts on the system after I have it installed.
Jason
I just got off the phone with Danny at Mufflex (really nice guy). I ordered a 4" catback w/ Magnaflow muffler... he is throwing in a sleeve to connect the 4" catback and 4" exit on the y pipe merge...
Next phone call is to American Racing Headers to order the headers/y pipe and they are fabricating the y pipe to have 3" pipes merge into the single 4".
With everyone's input and really thinking this exhaust through, I now feel that I have made the absolute best choice for maximum horsepower.
Thank you all for your input and help.
I'll update this post with lots of pictures and my thoughts on the system after I have it installed.
Jason
I'm assuming that you have years of exhaust design and fabrication under your belt with a comment like this.
Based on your previous posts it looks like your itching for me to comment on your, comments.
My comment to your comment is as follows:
Because Mufflex (who does have years of exhaust design and fabrication under their belt) told me that with the HP goals that I'm shooting for, a single 4" will be required. And that they have experienced nothing but good results (more HP) with their 4" catback versus their 3.5" catback on our cars.
Don't believe me? Call them yourself. Ask for Denny.
Any other comments you care to make?
Thanks
I'm assuming that you have years of exhaust design and fabrication under your belt with a comment like this.
Based on your previous posts it looks like your itching for me to comment on your, comments.
My comment to your comment is as follows:
Because Mufflex (who does have years of exhaust design and fabrication under their belt) told me that with the HP goals that I'm shooting for, a single 4" will be required. And that they have experienced nothing but good results (more HP) with their 4" catback versus their 3.5" catback on our cars.
Don't believe me? Call them yourself. Ask for Denny.
Any other comments you care to make?
Thanks
Based on your previous posts it looks like your itching for me to comment on your, comments.
My comment to your comment is as follows:
Because Mufflex (who does have years of exhaust design and fabrication under their belt) told me that with the HP goals that I'm shooting for, a single 4" will be required. And that they have experienced nothing but good results (more HP) with their 4" catback versus their 3.5" catback on our cars.
Don't believe me? Call them yourself. Ask for Denny.
Any other comments you care to make?
Thanks
No need to be a smart *** just giving you advice.......i have installed several exhaust systems on 4gen f-bodys,cant comment about mufflex since not many members run that exhaust....... but everyone knows that A 4" will make the same amount of peak power as 3" true duals. The difference is in the curve. The 4" will loose a little power in the curve but its not too bad
No need to be a smart *** just giving you advice.......i have installed several exhaust systems on 4gen f-bodys,cant comment about mufflex since not many members run that exhaust....... but everyone knows that A 4" will make the same amount of peak power as 3" true duals. The difference is in the curve. The 4" will loose a little power in the curve but its not too bad
Okay, so what is the advice that you're giving? That I need to go with a 5" exhaust? I'm not sure anyone makes it...
And, this entire thread has been about me "bitching" that no one makes a bolt-on true dual setup from header all the way to the bumper... so, I can't go that route...
Thanks anyways
The actual difference in total volume that each will flow is VERY minimal, and not enough to generalize that the 4" will lose power across the board. Not to mention the 4" is bolt-on header to bumper and he CAN NOT get a 3" dual system that is. Application requirements makes a difference guy, you can't just generalize that any one system is always the best. I was in the same situation as this guy and I got some 2.5" over the axle duals. He has the ability to support more power than I do with his 4" setup, so he obviously made the BEST choice for his current requirements, and whether or not 3" duals would have been better in power terms is not even set in stone so obviously it wouldn't make sense to sacrifice the over the axle preference for the mere possibility of 5HP that might not actually exist.
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Verdad Gallardo Keep in mind that I am no mechanical engineer, and certainly not a seasoned exhaust designer/fabricator... but here is a GENERAL idea as to the surface area of each of these pipes/setups:
Single 4" pipe = 12.56 sq. in.
Dual 2.5" pipes = 9.81 sq. in.
Dual 3" pipes = 14.13 sq. in.
So with this being said, the dual 3" setup has marginally more surface area than a single 4". But, do not let this mislead as I'm sure there are many other factors that affect the end result - horsepower.
Single 4" pipe = 12.56 sq. in.
Dual 2.5" pipes = 9.81 sq. in.
Dual 3" pipes = 14.13 sq. in.
So with this being said, the dual 3" setup has marginally more surface area than a single 4". But, do not let this mislead as I'm sure there are many other factors that affect the end result - horsepower.
A buddy of mine runs a 3.5" y pipe to 4" merge, then a 4" mufflex catback... He's nearly 470whp n/a... and he also recommends the single 4" as well as Denny at Mufflex...
Here's an idle video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vNTWz4yvF8
And a shake down pass - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JiQr...eature=related
That car sounds great in my opinion... so I have a great sounding exhaust to look forward to...
they def sound great but i wouldnt even think about something that big until i was in the serious hp range. too many little nit pic things to deal with on a 4" system. ground/ floorboard clearance etc. cant wait to see how u make out i bet it will sound good.
If you setup a ypipe properly, you will get all of the scaveging benefits that people try to get with a x-pipe. Not all x or h pipes are benefits either. If an x pipe crosses at a 90 degree angle, you create a lot of turbulance at the intersection, which is usually the problem with cheap ypipe merges. Most place just have one side hitting the other at a 90 degree angle then dumped into a single outlet. It's all about making that transition as smooth as possible.
BTW, my car made 351ft lbs at the wheels on a grossly oversized exhaust. Had it been a single Y setup, 3" or 4", it would have lost torque, particularly noticeable trying to turn 6th gear below 1500 rpm. Going from stock exhaust to running open headers for a week (waiting for the duals to come), to true duals, then adding the intake mods, 6th gear is just as useable as it was when bone stock. Open headers was a different story...
Jason
I will say it's pretty tight where the pipe goes up over the rear axle and the crossbar runs underneath it. My 3" single Magnaflow is tight in there. Quite a few people bought the 4" Mufflex/Spintech set up years ago, then went to other systems. I think people tend to go overboard on exhaust opinions just like cams.
I plan to go with the same on my car... but I'm having reservations regarding the clearance of such a large catback and y pipe... I'll make my mind up soon enough though.
this thread reminds me about when my buddy had a custom 3" magnaflow exhaust made for his VR6 VW while everyone else was running 2.5". he used the bigger is better mentality and LOST hp over his STOCK setup. i like to go with the "just enough" mentality cause bigger isn't always better as i have learned
this thread reminds me about when my buddy had a custom 3" magnaflow exhaust made for his VR6 VW while everyone else was running 2.5". he used the bigger is better mentality and LOST hp over his STOCK setup. i like to go with the "just enough" mentality cause bigger isn't always better as i have learned
I see your point, but I'm not totally convinced, especially at higher power levels on N/A engines. A Y will naturally create more turbulence no matter how smooth the transition simply because you're cutting down the space gasses can move by half further downstream.
Jason
Jason
Also you need to remember that the further downstream the exhaust gases go the more they cool off and condense, thus requiring less space than they would coming right out of the collectors. Granted the exhaust gas will still be hot but not nearly as hot as when it exits the head and makes the short trip down the header. Im not trying to state that one is better than the other or start an arguement just pointing that out.