Differences between ARH and QTP Headers?
Is it just at the welds?
And I don't mean to insult you here, but are you sure they're QTP's and not SLP's? Did you buy the car with them on there and someone just told you they were QTP's or did you buy them yourself? I'm not trying to insult you here, it's just an honest question.
And I don't mean to insult you here, but are you sure they're QTP's and not SLP's? Did you buy the car with them on there and someone just told you they were QTP's or did you buy them yourself? I'm not trying to insult you here, it's just an honest question.
Because of tolerances in the car. QTP's are a longer header than ARH headers, so you can expect more power from a set of QTP's. However, because they're longer, they are going to be a little tougher to install. They tap the steering column on my car because no two F-body's are put together exactly the same and the clearances in the car vary. It's the nature of the beast. The headers are made beautifully - beautifully polished, excellent welds and the best merge collectors in the business.
Any aftermarket part can have a fitment issue. If you don't want to risk it, don't mod your car. Complaints are out there for every brand of header and none of them have a 100% perfect record with fitment and they never will.
And you'd be surprised the kind of power difference between brands of headers. Going from one brand of headers to another can yield serious losses/gains in power depending on which brands you swap from. "All longtubes dyno the same" is the biggest lie ever told on LS1tech, and it's told and awful lot.
Any aftermarket part can have a fitment issue. If you don't want to risk it, don't mod your car. Complaints are out there for every brand of header and none of them have a 100% perfect record with fitment and they never will.
And you'd be surprised the kind of power difference between brands of headers. Going from one brand of headers to another can yield serious losses/gains in power depending on which brands you swap from. "All longtubes dyno the same" is the biggest lie ever told on LS1tech, and it's told and awful lot.
You seem to be forgiving the fitment issues because the headers look nice. I don't look at it that way. I want a turn key system that fits right the first time, and I have read more complaints about QTP, than ARH. I don't believe your claims about the power difference either. Do you know of any back to back dynos between QTP and ARH to prove your claim? Do you work for QTP?
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From: Tree-Hugging, Bug eating CALI'
I thought I saw a comparison somewhere but I can't find it and can't remember any benefit, either way. The biggest thing I like with the QTPs are the collector. If you look at their primaries, they just seem to merge the primaries together smoother (in my eyes anyways...) The transition just seems more gradual, which, IMHO, is also the reason I don't favor them as much as they look like they are more difficult to weld completely. That is my biggest complaint, is the leaking. I can TELL anyone that I believe they leak a LOT. I remember significant ticking from my QTPs and after using the manifold epoxy repair the ticking is almost gone (for now.) You can't even tell the car has LTs because there's no more noise than with the manifolds. Again, I like the concept of QTPs merge, however the execution and practicality of it's complicated design doesn't lend it to be sealed all the way. I'm no engineer however, I've spent a LOT of time starring at my LTs, before they were on the car because of how purdy they were, and even tried a make-shift leak test on them (hence my finding the leaks) but I can say that if ARHs design is definately leak-proof, I'd lean that way more so.
I'd go so far as to say if someone were to offer me a straight trade from my QTPs to ARHs for free, I'd take it in a hearbeat. I can't confirm how good the ARHs are, but I know from personal experience everything I stated regarding my QTPs. Don't get me wrong, I love 'em, and I've put down great power (IMHO,) but they leave something to be desired...
I'd go so far as to say if someone were to offer me a straight trade from my QTPs to ARHs for free, I'd take it in a hearbeat. I can't confirm how good the ARHs are, but I know from personal experience everything I stated regarding my QTPs. Don't get me wrong, I love 'em, and I've put down great power (IMHO,) but they leave something to be desired...
FormerVendor
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Choco, Until you physically take a tape measure and check both systems you should refrain from making statements regarding length. Also you need to take some header theory courses. Longer primaries do not automatically mean more power or torque. You're also not taking into account what role the 20ft of pipe after the headers has on power output.
When we developed our F-body headers we started with a clean sheet of paper. We deliberately chose our primary lengths to accomodate the widest array of performance applications. We then made no comprimises on our Y-pipe design. We even go a step further by gladly fine tuning our systems for customers with special needs.
Nick
When we developed our F-body headers we started with a clean sheet of paper. We deliberately chose our primary lengths to accomodate the widest array of performance applications. We then made no comprimises on our Y-pipe design. We even go a step further by gladly fine tuning our systems for customers with special needs.
Nick
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From: Tree-Hugging, Bug eating CALI'
I think that's another plus for ARH, is they will custom tune your system My understanding is that is important to remember that a merge collector has to be optimized for different applications and engine specs'. Just because a header has a merge collector doesn't mean it's optimized for your specific engine combination. FWIW, I don't think the difference in the length of the primaries are going to be too significant.
Again, I like how active ARH is on here too
My understanding is that is important to remember that a merge collector has to be optimized for different applications and engine specs'. Just because a header has a merge collector doesn't mean it's optimized for your specific engine combination. FWIW, I don't think the difference in the length of the primaries are going to be too significant.Again, I like how active ARH is on here too
Choco, Until you physically take a tape measure and check both systems you should refrain from making statements regarding length. Also you need to take some header theory courses. Longer primaries do not automatically mean more power or torque. You're also not taking into account what role the 20ft of pipe after the headers has on power output.
When we developed our F-body headers we started with a clean sheet of paper. We deliberately chose our primary lengths to accomodate the widest array of performance applications. We then made no comprimises on our Y-pipe design. We even go a step further by gladly fine tuning our systems for customers with special needs.
Nick
When we developed our F-body headers we started with a clean sheet of paper. We deliberately chose our primary lengths to accomodate the widest array of performance applications. We then made no comprimises on our Y-pipe design. We even go a step further by gladly fine tuning our systems for customers with special needs.
Nick
I can back that the special needs part. I have ARH headers. Nick is a huge help. They put a 3" outlet on the end of my Y pipe so there was no 2 3/4 neck down in the system. The Y pipe fits awesome and the cats do not set any codes on my car. Some aftermarket cats set Low Efficiency codes. Nick will do anything to help a customer. Thank you Nick and all of you at ARH.
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From: Tree-Hugging, Bug eating CALI'
Good question. I wish I could have a nice merge collector and Y-pipe in stainless. I know I remember seeing someone run the 3" Y-pipes into a 4" collector somewhere. I think the collector was actually a LM resonator and it necked down at the exit, but now that I think about it, I believe this was on ARHs LTs.
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Verdad Gallardo FormerVendor
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All I know is I picked up great power from a well-ported-primary-tube MAC mid ORY and Flowmaster Y-merge mod setup to a ARH cat'd setup and this was on my 347 motor ... not a big cube motor. I was VERY pleased > 25RWHP/17RWTQ:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/florida-members/831128-ar-headers-tomorrow.html
EXCERPT:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/florida-members/831128-ar-headers-tomorrow.html
EXCERPT:
Originally Posted by Mike Norris
Hey All,
Jack just picked up his car and should be on here after a bit. The 1 7/8" headers fit great and the cats have all kinds of clearance. The car pulling away sounded great and had no raspiness to it as it did when it had the Mac's and OR Y on there.
I was very surprised at the gains from the change of the Mac's w/ OR to the ARH 1 7/8" w/ Cats with no tuning changes. I did a locked baseline run Sunday after Jack dropped off the car to have a fair comparison instead of going back to the old runs. My base runs were close to Jack's last dyno numbers.
I will let Jack post up the numbers if he wishes. I can tell you the gains were more then what was predicted here by Disturbed Bird before the tune. I can get more specific once Jack posts.
Have a good one all.
Mike Norris
__________________
Mike Norris Motorsports
101 First Street
Winter Garden, FL 34787
407-616-2518
thevettedr@aol.com
www.mikenorrismotorsports.com
Jack just picked up his car and should be on here after a bit. The 1 7/8" headers fit great and the cats have all kinds of clearance. The car pulling away sounded great and had no raspiness to it as it did when it had the Mac's and OR Y on there.
I was very surprised at the gains from the change of the Mac's w/ OR to the ARH 1 7/8" w/ Cats with no tuning changes. I did a locked baseline run Sunday after Jack dropped off the car to have a fair comparison instead of going back to the old runs. My base runs were close to Jack's last dyno numbers.
I will let Jack post up the numbers if he wishes. I can tell you the gains were more then what was predicted here by Disturbed Bird before the tune. I can get more specific once Jack posts.
Have a good one all.
Mike Norris
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Mike Norris Motorsports
101 First Street
Winter Garden, FL 34787
407-616-2518
thevettedr@aol.com
www.mikenorrismotorsports.com
Tech Resident
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From: Philly
You seem to be forgiving the fitment issues because the headers look nice. I don't look at it that way. I want a turn key system that fits right the first time, and I have read more complaints about QTP, than ARH. I don't believe your claims about the power difference either. Do you know of any back to back dynos between QTP and ARH to prove your claim? Do you work for QTP?
I don't mind the occasional tap on the steering column because I've seen too many horror stories about installing headers. I've heard of headers sitting on the K-member, headers sitting on the steering column, having to grind seemingly everything, having clearance issues with spark plug wires where the headers burned right through the wire...the list goes on and on. The fact is, my QTP's fit like a glove and while the driver's side took coaxing to go in, nothing needed to be cut, ground or removed except the oil drain plug, and I had over 4,000 miles on the oil anyway
Headers are probably one of the most compromising aftermarket parts out there because of fitment. Every brand has their horror stories - every single one of them - and the fact that the intermittent tapping isn't even a real problem, well, I'm more than happy with my purchase even happier with the hundreds I saved going QTP.
BTW, you've read more complaints about QTP than ARH because they've been out 3+ years longer than ARH and have sold thousands more sets. Even if QTP had 5% of their customers complain about their headers and ARH had 10%, you'd still hear way more complaints from guys with QTP's because there's so many more sets out there (those numbers are made up, I have no idea how many customers complain with each brand, it was just an example).
Not trying to be Mr. Disagreeable, but I have my reasons for saying what I'm saying...
One of these day's I'll be getting a new set of headers as I have the original style collector on the header. I just don't get why the ARH are so much more expensive that the qtp's when they are pretty similar..... Just trying to figure that one out.
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From: Philly
Not to be confrontational, but unique to your headers or you just don't want to sell the ypipe without people buying the whole package?
One of these day's I'll be getting a new set of headers as I have the original style collector on the header. I just don't get why the ARH are so much more expensive that the qtp's when they are pretty similar..... Just trying to figure that one out.
One of these day's I'll be getting a new set of headers as I have the original style collector on the header. I just don't get why the ARH are so much more expensive that the qtp's when they are pretty similar..... Just trying to figure that one out.
http://www.mphparts.com/mm5/merchant...BLS1EX-AMERRAC
It's $365. Don't expect the ARH y-pipe to bolt right on to any other headers aside from ARH's, but regardless of what anyone tells you, you can always modify it at any exhaust shop for little cost.
However, it'll probably be cheaper for an exhaust shop to just make a custom one for you. If you don't have any good exhaust shops in the area though, you can always buy the ARH y-pipe and have them modify it. It doesn't take a good exhaust shop to simply modify a y-pipe. Any Joe Blow exhaust shop can do that.
I think Jeremy from MPH may remember this picture. After paying
so much for QTP's this is what showed up. I was so disappointed in the quality. If it wasnt for MPH's great customer service i would have been assed out..
and please dont try and tell me that gap would seal after it warmed up. You could see large amounts of daylight through the multiple gaps on the primaries. You could actually tell where they tried to weld it up..looked friggen horrible. I wanted to purchase some ARH from MPG but I had to divert the extra funds somewhere else at the time so I went with pacesetters.
This one shows the welds a little better. I had pics of the daylight but I must have deleted them.
Shane
so much for QTP's this is what showed up. I was so disappointed in the quality. If it wasnt for MPH's great customer service i would have been assed out..
and please dont try and tell me that gap would seal after it warmed up. You could see large amounts of daylight through the multiple gaps on the primaries. You could actually tell where they tried to weld it up..looked friggen horrible. I wanted to purchase some ARH from MPG but I had to divert the extra funds somewhere else at the time so I went with pacesetters.
This one shows the welds a little better. I had pics of the daylight but I must have deleted them.
Shane
It isn't the welds you need to look at in the pictures...but the lack of welds. If you follow the tube, you will see a gap where the tubing was not welded at all. They tried, but missed completely. Those look worse than the welds I attempt! Hell, the welds on my XS headers are better than those pictured. I guess those Chinese know how to weld after all!
Galen
Galen
ARH Much better fit, Didn't even have to pull my plugs or oil filter to install both sides. Y pipe is all stainless and designed with a decent merge. I am lowered with cats and don't have clearance issues under the car and they never banged the floor boards from day one and I still have the factory motor mounts.
FormerVendor
Joined: Oct 2007
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Not to be confrontational, but unique to your headers or you just don't want to sell the ypipe without people buying the whole package?
One of these day's I'll be getting a new set of headers as I have the original style collector on the header. I just don't get why the ARH are so much more expensive that the qtp's when they are pretty similar..... Just trying to figure that one out.
One of these day's I'll be getting a new set of headers as I have the original style collector on the header. I just don't get why the ARH are so much more expensive that the qtp's when they are pretty similar..... Just trying to figure that one out.
Nick