View Poll Results: 1 3/4" Headers or 1 7/8" Headers ?
1 3/4" Headers
42
37.50%
1 7/8" Headers
70
62.50%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll
1 3/4" Headers vs 1 7/8" Headers ?!?!?
#21
An MS4 is nothing close to what you need to warrant bigger primaries. Unless you're going stroker or FI/NO2, stick with the appropriate 1 3/4" headers. Putting larger diameter primaries on your car will just slow down exhaust velocity and create more drag on the exhaust cutting big power in the low/midrange RPM's.
Wrong, your basing your opinion off no real world experience/knowledge
#23
#24
Enlighten us then Choco. With your real world experience/knowledge. Prove him wrong. If you can. I think some pretty convincing knowledge has already been posted up disproving your theory.
#27
Header manufacturers design 1 3/4" headers for these cars for a reason. They run better on virtually every 346 motor out there. Unless you're running FI or big cubes, there is no point. You'll only be costing yourself low end power - power dynos don't show - in the vast majority of cases. Plenty of sponsors and pro's have come on here saying that you want 1 3/4" in virtually every 346 package with possibly exception to the most aggressive setups on the market. A cam only car doesn't fit into that category.
So please, show me the "evidence" you speak of. Make sure it's relevant. If it's not a dyno of 1 3/4" headers vs. 1 7/8" headers, fully tuned with the same AFR, same brand and same design on the same car on the same day, same dyno, same humidity and it shows the power and torque from 1500 rpms up, it's meaningless.
Forgive me for siding with header manufacturers on my decision. I should have listened to Datzneat and SoCalSpd when I bought my headers How I missed those two vast tomes of knowledge, I'll never know
I'm wrong. Buy 1 7/8 headers for your bolt-on cars. More guys on the road I can beat
#29
If you are racing below 3500 RPMs then you are doing something very wrong. And who cares about power gains at 1500 RPMs? The car will still have plenty of power there to cruise and accelerate. And if he dosent have the umph at 1500 RPMs just downshift. Thats why transmissions have more than one gear.
#30
If you are racing below 3500 RPMs then you are doing something very wrong. And who cares about power gains at 1500 RPMs? The car will still have plenty of power there to cruise and accelerate. And if he dosent have the umph at 1500 RPMs just downshift. Thats why transmissions have more than one gear.
I love these guys that come on here claiming that low end power doesn't matter on their bolt-on and cam-only cars. I rarely ever wind up past 3500 rpm's. I care about low end power more than top end power because that's where I spend all my time. On a NA 346, you're not going to pick up any peak horsepowepr on a 1 7/8" header. You're only going to lose low-end. Unless you plan on going FI or big cubes, I, along with many pro's and header manufacturers alike, will continue to run 1 3/4" headers.
My car traps plenty high enough to turn a mid to low 12. I'll stick with what I have. If you want to lose crucial torque and average horsepower, downgrade to the larger header. I have plenty of flow in my exhaust for my power level. Exhaust gas velocity is my #1 concern, and you get a lot more with a 1 3/4" header.
#31
Have you done any dyno tests to back up that statement? Maybe on a stock car you wouldn't see pick up but on a highly modified 346 there is definately power to be picked up with an 1 7/8 header.
#33
if your doi heads and a biggass ms4 go 1 7/8. ive got 1 7/8 on my stock 853 heads with a stock ls1 intake my car mph's at 108 thru an auto at 3700 lbs. i dont think im losin power lol. plus you have room to grow as others have stated. the guy at texas speed even has dyno numbers to form his opinion.. what more do you need?
bottom line is either way dont sweat it, you'll be fine.
chaco taco.. you're hillarious. when i was researching headers you were literally in EVERY header thread i searched and found. lol. not sayin your opinions are good or bad - not criticizing your view point i just find it funny. *not pickin on you at all, you believe in your small primaries, and "theory" is worth the discussion ; )
bottom line is either way dont sweat it, you'll be fine.
chaco taco.. you're hillarious. when i was researching headers you were literally in EVERY header thread i searched and found. lol. not sayin your opinions are good or bad - not criticizing your view point i just find it funny. *not pickin on you at all, you believe in your small primaries, and "theory" is worth the discussion ; )
#35
About me, I'm thinking to swap the old 1 3/4 for the new tsp 1 7/8...but my old 1 3/4 do the the job well thoughl! I'll wait for bigger ci to invest on that, I guess.
#37
Like what? And don't show me a dyno that begins at 3500 rpms. Don't show me a dyno showing two totally different brands competing. Both are completely meaningless.
Header manufacturers design 1 3/4" headers for these cars for a reason. They run better on virtually every 346 motor out there. Unless you're running FI or big cubes, there is no point. You'll only be costing yourself low end power - power dynos don't show - in the vast majority of cases. Plenty of sponsors and pro's have come on here saying that you want 1 3/4" in virtually every 346 package with possibly exception to the most aggressive setups on the market. A cam only car doesn't fit into that category.
So please, show me the "evidence" you speak of. Make sure it's relevant. If it's not a dyno of 1 3/4" headers vs. 1 7/8" headers, fully tuned with the same AFR, same brand and same design on the same car on the same day, same dyno, same humidity and it shows the power and torque from 1500 rpms up, it's meaningless.
Forgive me for siding with header manufacturers on my decision. I should have listened to Datzneat and SoCalSpd when I bought my headers How I missed those two vast tomes of knowledge, I'll never know
I'm wrong. Buy 1 7/8 headers for your bolt-on cars. More guys on the road I can beat
Header manufacturers design 1 3/4" headers for these cars for a reason. They run better on virtually every 346 motor out there. Unless you're running FI or big cubes, there is no point. You'll only be costing yourself low end power - power dynos don't show - in the vast majority of cases. Plenty of sponsors and pro's have come on here saying that you want 1 3/4" in virtually every 346 package with possibly exception to the most aggressive setups on the market. A cam only car doesn't fit into that category.
So please, show me the "evidence" you speak of. Make sure it's relevant. If it's not a dyno of 1 3/4" headers vs. 1 7/8" headers, fully tuned with the same AFR, same brand and same design on the same car on the same day, same dyno, same humidity and it shows the power and torque from 1500 rpms up, it's meaningless.
Forgive me for siding with header manufacturers on my decision. I should have listened to Datzneat and SoCalSpd when I bought my headers How I missed those two vast tomes of knowledge, I'll never know
I'm wrong. Buy 1 7/8 headers for your bolt-on cars. More guys on the road I can beat
#38
#39
My car runs with 1 3/4 right now. They do just fine.
I would look at the 7/8's as an investment for future mods. I hate buying parts twice. If you're gonna go big later, start buying the right parts now.
I would look at the 7/8's as an investment for future mods. I hate buying parts twice. If you're gonna go big later, start buying the right parts now.
#40
Let's see. If you had actually understood my post you would have posted up evidence. Since you have none you keep spouting your opinion which nobody cares about. There has already been evidence posted up in this thread which you just choose to ignore. So until you post up some real evidence your opinion is meaningless. As for your siding with header manufactures b.s., they make the 1 7/8 for a reason. For people that want more out of their car than to sit in traffic like you.
Again, zero evidence. I'll stick to the header size designed for a 346. There's a reason why headers for these cars were determined to be 1 3/4" by every header manufacturer out there, and the ones that make larger headers recommend them only for much more serious builds. The only people that are arguing against this seem to be:
1.) Those that have larger headers
2.) Those that only sell the larger headers
3.) Those that think bigger is always better and understand nothing when it comes to fluid mechanics
But what do I know. I'm just a guy on an internet forum.
Keep arguing about it. I really don't care. It's totally stupid to argue over something so pointless. Buy whatever you want. I tried to help. If you don't want my opinion, don't read it. Everyone listen to Datzneat, he knows it all. I say, the more people on the road I can beat the better
Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 11-08-2008 at 11:52 PM.