Vengeance Racing Completes 495 Cubic Inch Warhawk!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10-24-2008, 12:30 PM
#61
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You serious, you think a 495CU should not pull 550+?
There 6.0s making 500 to the wheels, surely the extra cubes and bigger cam and bigger CC heads will add up to more power, if not....why do it!?!?
I guess I am just not happy to see the 383/LT1 pull 400, a 355 should pull 400 with ease, the 383s should be in the middle 400s IMO.....
I expect too much out of my resources.
There 6.0s making 500 to the wheels, surely the extra cubes and bigger cam and bigger CC heads will add up to more power, if not....why do it!?!?
I guess I am just not happy to see the 383/LT1 pull 400, a 355 should pull 400 with ease, the 383s should be in the middle 400s IMO.....
I expect too much out of my resources.
10-24-2008, 04:37 PM
#63
FormerVendor
You serious, you think a 495CU should not pull 550+?
There 6.0s making 500 to the wheels, surely the extra cubes and bigger cam and bigger CC heads will add up to more power, if not....why do it!?!?
I guess I am just not happy to see the 383/LT1 pull 400, a 355 should pull 400 with ease, the 383s should be in the middle 400s IMO.....
I expect too much out of my resources.
There 6.0s making 500 to the wheels, surely the extra cubes and bigger cam and bigger CC heads will add up to more power, if not....why do it!?!?
I guess I am just not happy to see the 383/LT1 pull 400, a 355 should pull 400 with ease, the 383s should be in the middle 400s IMO.....
I expect too much out of my resources.
You put that same stuff on it and the 495 will make more power and make it down much lower and will purr like a kitten at idle compared to the weaker gutless 346 with that same stuff. You could do a high gear roll-on and destoy the smaller engine car too unless it was running way lower gears etc. It's all in what you want.
Of course you can run way bigger heads and cam on the 495 and it would make way more power than the little 346 ever can.
10-25-2008, 12:32 PM
#65
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not disputing this at all....
a person should take the time and pick the right parts and if Veng is doing this I am sure it will just like every other top notch shop.
What I was asking is why would the owner be happy with 500 to the wheels when an easier route (ie cheaper route) be to go with a 6.0 or something like that instead of this block and machining that had to be done.
It's not hard to make power with these motors, no matter what the size but hoping a 495 puts down 500 to me is setting up the owner for lower expectations that he should have. granted, if they tell him it might put 500 and it shows 600 they are liked alot more but I have a feeling that if the owner wants a 495 and is willing to pay for what it take to make it work, the numbers would be higher than 500, as mentioned, Veng makes power on smaller cubes so making the power will not be a problem....
The more i read on the net the more I realize I expect too much.....
a person should take the time and pick the right parts and if Veng is doing this I am sure it will just like every other top notch shop.
What I was asking is why would the owner be happy with 500 to the wheels when an easier route (ie cheaper route) be to go with a 6.0 or something like that instead of this block and machining that had to be done.
It's not hard to make power with these motors, no matter what the size but hoping a 495 puts down 500 to me is setting up the owner for lower expectations that he should have. granted, if they tell him it might put 500 and it shows 600 they are liked alot more but I have a feeling that if the owner wants a 495 and is willing to pay for what it take to make it work, the numbers would be higher than 500, as mentioned, Veng makes power on smaller cubes so making the power will not be a problem....
The more i read on the net the more I realize I expect too much.....
There would be a big difference in a 495 incher vs a 346 incher in drivability if they both have the same stuff or even the same peak power. You put TFS 235s and a mid 240 cam in a 346 its a pig down lower and can hardly turn enough rpm to ever use up the heads plus the idle vacuum and manners will not be that nice.
You put that same stuff on it and the 495 will make more power and make it down much lower and will purr like a kitten at idle compared to the weaker gutless 346 with that same stuff. You could do a high gear roll-on and destoy the smaller engine car too unless it was running way lower gears etc. It's all in what you want.
Of course you can run way bigger heads and cam on the 495 and it would make way more power than the little 346 ever can.
You put that same stuff on it and the 495 will make more power and make it down much lower and will purr like a kitten at idle compared to the weaker gutless 346 with that same stuff. You could do a high gear roll-on and destoy the smaller engine car too unless it was running way lower gears etc. It's all in what you want.
Of course you can run way bigger heads and cam on the 495 and it would make way more power than the little 346 ever can.
10-25-2008, 03:30 PM
#69
FormerVendor
Right since obviously the combo CAN make much more, I see what you are saying! But they may just want a very stock-like engine with much more power than stock but still very normal manners even if it doesn't make big total or peak numbers.
not disputing this at all....
a person should take the time and pick the right parts and if Veng is doing this I am sure it will just like every other top notch shop.
What I was asking is why would the owner be happy with 500 to the wheels when an easier route (ie cheaper route) be to go with a 6.0 or something like that instead of this block and machining that had to be done.
It's not hard to make power with these motors, no matter what the size but hoping a 495 puts down 500 to me is setting up the owner for lower expectations that he should have. granted, if they tell him it might put 500 and it shows 600 they are liked alot more but I have a feeling that if the owner wants a 495 and is willing to pay for what it take to make it work, the numbers would be higher than 500, as mentioned, Veng makes power on smaller cubes so making the power will not be a problem....
The more i read on the net the more I realize I expect too much.....
a person should take the time and pick the right parts and if Veng is doing this I am sure it will just like every other top notch shop.
What I was asking is why would the owner be happy with 500 to the wheels when an easier route (ie cheaper route) be to go with a 6.0 or something like that instead of this block and machining that had to be done.
It's not hard to make power with these motors, no matter what the size but hoping a 495 puts down 500 to me is setting up the owner for lower expectations that he should have. granted, if they tell him it might put 500 and it shows 600 they are liked alot more but I have a feeling that if the owner wants a 495 and is willing to pay for what it take to make it work, the numbers would be higher than 500, as mentioned, Veng makes power on smaller cubes so making the power will not be a problem....
The more i read on the net the more I realize I expect too much.....
10-25-2008, 04:06 PM
#71
I am almost done with my 427 Warhawk build. LS7 heads, intake, Vengeance LS7X cam. What it makes peak is one thing but where it starts to make the power is more important to me. Will I have 400hp 400tq at 3000-3500 rpm? That to me is where the bigger cubes pay for themselves and then have good drivability. 
10-25-2008, 04:12 PM
#72
I am almost done with my 427 Warhawk build. LS7 heads, intake, Vengeance LS7X cam. What it makes peak is one thing but where it starts to make the power is more important to me. Will I have 400hp 400tq at 3000-3500 rpm? That to me is where the bigger cubes pay for themselves and then have good drivability.
10-27-2008, 06:38 AM
#73
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Well the intake will always be the restriction, so maybe more effort placed on the intake would make more sense. I agree about the LS7 heads though. More power with a smaller cam, makes for better daily driver, better economy and better emissions.
10-27-2008, 09:08 AM
#74
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Smaller cam, better economy and lower efuckingmisisions! Why don't we see if we can find a good used Prius motor!!! This mother ****** will leave a big foot sized carbon footprint!!!!
10-27-2008, 09:12 AM
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Too funny. I never thought I would see anyone comment on fuel economy and emissions in the same sentence as a 495 ci motor. I am with GRB, look for a Prius if you want low emissions and high mileage. Now with that being said I bet this monster could still get over 20 mpg if it was babied and driven on the eway with a 6 spd and a 3.42 rear gear.
Now where are the results ??????
10-27-2008, 10:41 AM
#76
Kinda like how your combo has a decently sized cam, expensive intake/TB combo, expensive stainless LT's & worked over stock heads still isn't breaking 390rwhp where as many 224 cam cars with cheap Pacesetters, worked stock heads & GM LS6 intake have broke 400rwhp with far less invested in their combo.
The ENTIRE combo is where it's at & if the LS7 head was the better choice tey would use it. But obviously it's not hence the use of the TFS heads.
10-27-2008, 01:11 PM
#78
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Umm... let's see #s!!!
Solid roller 495 ci, and you're only expecting 600 rwhp? Didn't a sponsor here make 926 rwhp at like 9600 RPMs on naturally aspirated LSX 440 ci (IIRC)? Seems like a hell of a lot of effort for 600 rwhp. I don't know what kind of cam you're running, though.
That stroke scares the hell outta me, but good luck with it.
This may sound like a negative post, but I'm really just curious to see numbers, and to know what this motor is built for.
Solid roller 495 ci, and you're only expecting 600 rwhp? Didn't a sponsor here make 926 rwhp at like 9600 RPMs on naturally aspirated LSX 440 ci (IIRC)? Seems like a hell of a lot of effort for 600 rwhp. I don't know what kind of cam you're running, though.
That stroke scares the hell outta me, but good luck with it.
This may sound like a negative post, but I'm really just curious to see numbers, and to know what this motor is built for.
10-27-2008, 01:39 PM
#79
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Bottom line there are two issues with this build
1. It should be good because Vengeance Racing is building it.
2. Now for the limitations, VR is building it the way the owner (the guy paying the bills) wants it built.
Thats great that the shop is doing exactly what the customer wants, especially since the customer is paying them to do it. On the flip side the numbers may not be MAX numbers due to parts selected by the customer most likely will differ from what Ron would select if they wrere chasing PEAK numbers VS reliability. At any rate Ron is a great guy and I am sure he will make the most out of what is given to him and I still expect some pretty good numbers out of 495 ci's even if its being choked by a ported 92mm FAST and 95mm tb.
1. It should be good because Vengeance Racing is building it.
2. Now for the limitations, VR is building it the way the owner (the guy paying the bills) wants it built.
Thats great that the shop is doing exactly what the customer wants, especially since the customer is paying them to do it. On the flip side the numbers may not be MAX numbers due to parts selected by the customer most likely will differ from what Ron would select if they wrere chasing PEAK numbers VS reliability. At any rate Ron is a great guy and I am sure he will make the most out of what is given to him and I still expect some pretty good numbers out of 495 ci's even if its being choked by a ported 92mm FAST and 95mm tb.