View Poll Results: Keep GTP stg 2+ or get PRC 5.3 stg 2.5's
Fix seals in GTP stg 2+ and stick w/ Torquer 2 cam
6
46.15%
Ditch those heads, get PRC 5.3 stg 2.5s and run Pat G grind
7
53.85%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll
Keep GTP stg 2+'s or get PRC 5.3 stg 2.5s?
01-26-2009, 02:28 PM
#1
Keep GTP stg 2+'s or get PRC 5.3 stg 2.5s? Ok, I am in a little bit of a dillema here. Sorry in advance for the long post but some advice on my part is needed.
Car smokes on startup, and faintly when it gets warm. On slight blips of the throttle it'll push out a bit of smoke, but not an excess amount. None in the higher RPMs and after driving it home (15 miles) and repeating the same things, there is none @ all, even @ idle. It is blue and like I said VERY faint, and only noticeable in direct sunlight. Motor has no blowby. Did a leakdown, everything seems fine internally. I have basically narrowed it down to the seals (12-15k miles old) or the guides.
The heads are Craig Gallant's GTP STG 2+, on a flow bench they flowed max @ 317@.600, so they are some DAMN good heads. In the past year though, I have broken a valvespring, patriot .650's (came w/ the heads, "supposed to be new" but who knows), broke the inner spring on #1 cylinder, valve didn't drop and all was fine after swapping in my PRC .660s. Unsure if they guy who swapped them used a "top hat" style seal due to the dual springs or just a GM factory seals. I know for a fact that he didn't seal the rocker studs w/ teflon since these are ported 241's. Now I have this current problem.
Basically my question is, should I stick with my current heads, swap the seals and hope that's what the problem is, or should I ditch those and go with PRC 5.3 stg 2.5s. I know the reputation of the PRC 5.3 stg 2.5s, which were going to be my initial choice, but my current setup put down 435/388 running torquer 2 113lsa, w/ 315's on the back, no U/D pulley installed yet, and in 102* deg temps.
I love my current heads but the valvetrain is almost unbearably noisy and I'm getting a little "big cam" fever. If I was to swap heads, I will most certainly be going w/ a Pat G grind so I can attempt to quiet down the valvetrain w/ it and some perfectly setup pushrods.
In retrospect though, during my cam swap I didn't have enough money to purchase a ported LS6 oil pump, and TSP was unable to get some LS7 lifter during my head swap. Both would definitely give me more peace of mind, as that's always been a regret of mine, not getting those two things.
To note: I don't have a tree full of funds in the backyard so money IS an issue, I get my yearly bonus on Feb 12 BTW also, which is why I'm pondering getting a new setup, but my current is really stout so I don't want to waste $ on unnecessary things. I am also wanting to save some to mod the G8
Once again, sorry for the Tom Clancy-esque novel post here, just needing some insight. Thanks
Car smokes on startup, and faintly when it gets warm. On slight blips of the throttle it'll push out a bit of smoke, but not an excess amount. None in the higher RPMs and after driving it home (15 miles) and repeating the same things, there is none @ all, even @ idle. It is blue and like I said VERY faint, and only noticeable in direct sunlight. Motor has no blowby. Did a leakdown, everything seems fine internally. I have basically narrowed it down to the seals (12-15k miles old) or the guides.
The heads are Craig Gallant's GTP STG 2+, on a flow bench they flowed max @ 317@.600, so they are some DAMN good heads. In the past year though, I have broken a valvespring, patriot .650's (came w/ the heads, "supposed to be new" but who knows), broke the inner spring on #1 cylinder, valve didn't drop and all was fine after swapping in my PRC .660s. Unsure if they guy who swapped them used a "top hat" style seal due to the dual springs or just a GM factory seals. I know for a fact that he didn't seal the rocker studs w/ teflon since these are ported 241's. Now I have this current problem.
Basically my question is, should I stick with my current heads, swap the seals and hope that's what the problem is, or should I ditch those and go with PRC 5.3 stg 2.5s. I know the reputation of the PRC 5.3 stg 2.5s, which were going to be my initial choice, but my current setup put down 435/388 running torquer 2 113lsa, w/ 315's on the back, no U/D pulley installed yet, and in 102* deg temps.
I love my current heads but the valvetrain is almost unbearably noisy and I'm getting a little "big cam" fever. If I was to swap heads, I will most certainly be going w/ a Pat G grind so I can attempt to quiet down the valvetrain w/ it and some perfectly setup pushrods.
In retrospect though, during my cam swap I didn't have enough money to purchase a ported LS6 oil pump, and TSP was unable to get some LS7 lifter during my head swap. Both would definitely give me more peace of mind, as that's always been a regret of mine, not getting those two things.
To note: I don't have a tree full of funds in the backyard so money IS an issue, I get my yearly bonus on Feb 12 BTW also, which is why I'm pondering getting a new setup, but my current is really stout so I don't want to waste $ on unnecessary things. I am also wanting to save some to mod the G8
Once again, sorry for the Tom Clancy-esque novel post here, just needing some insight. Thanks
Last edited by '02 WS6; 01-26-2009 at 02:56 PM.
01-26-2009, 04:53 PM
#2
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You have a set of heads which I would put up against almost anything out there right now. Craig's stuff is really hard to beat. What are you really looking for out of the change? I know everyone wants more power but how much money are you willing to spend per HP gained???
Shane
Shane
01-26-2009, 05:27 PM
#3
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First off a couple Q's, If the guy didnt seal the rocker bolts did you? How are you sure the 5.3's are going to perform better then your current heads? And is your #'s on the combo SAE?
I doubt you would gain anything going to the 5.3's. Noisy valve train is normal with these cars.
This is what I would do... I would get a custom cam spec'd and while you have the car apart I would have the seals replaced and have the guides looked at. While the heads are off I would replace the lifters and get some .04 cometics. Check the PR length order the PR's And enjoy the new setup. Pm if you want someone to spec you a cam.
Eric
I doubt you would gain anything going to the 5.3's. Noisy valve train is normal with these cars.
This is what I would do... I would get a custom cam spec'd and while you have the car apart I would have the seals replaced and have the guides looked at. While the heads are off I would replace the lifters and get some .04 cometics. Check the PR length order the PR's And enjoy the new setup. Pm if you want someone to spec you a cam.
Eric
01-26-2009, 05:46 PM
#4
Shane - Don't get me wrong I LOVE these heads. I'm not wanting/expecting more power just trying to maybe come up w/ a more simplistic approach to my current problem. I don't want to spend the $300+ to swap in new seals, then find out the guides are bad and them I'm stuck w/ the labor costs of pulling the heads off, getting them machined to fix the guides, I would have to buy new valves because that's how I am eventhough I wouldn't HAVE to (currently Ferrea 2.02/1.60), then have to pay labor to get them reinstalled.
Eric - Number's were SAE IIRC, I dyno'd @ Speedtek, but couldn't get some good complete runs as my fuel pump was struggling to keep up, so he was killing the pulls @ 6000-6200. The guy who swapped in my new springs is a guy I talk to frequently and he didn't know that the heads were ported, just saw the 241 casting and assumed they were stock, and that's why he didn't seal the rocker bolts. I already have .040 cometics and the PR checker was w/in .015 according to my installer, and w/ .080 preload, and it's still VERY noisy, which I know is due to the stock ls1 lifters as well.
All in all I'm trying to get the most cost effective plan, not "what can I do to get better on a dyno!"
Basically the easiest question is - Spend to fix my current heads or Spend on new ones?
Eric - Number's were SAE IIRC, I dyno'd @ Speedtek, but couldn't get some good complete runs as my fuel pump was struggling to keep up, so he was killing the pulls @ 6000-6200. The guy who swapped in my new springs is a guy I talk to frequently and he didn't know that the heads were ported, just saw the 241 casting and assumed they were stock, and that's why he didn't seal the rocker bolts. I already have .040 cometics and the PR checker was w/in .015 according to my installer, and w/ .080 preload, and it's still VERY noisy, which I know is due to the stock ls1 lifters as well.
All in all I'm trying to get the most cost effective plan, not "what can I do to get better on a dyno!"
Basically the easiest question is - Spend to fix my current heads or Spend on new ones?
01-26-2009, 06:14 PM
#5
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Who the hell charges 300 to do valve seals?!?!?!?! I had the proper install set by my guy and he charged me $150 to disassemble, clean and lap the valves, set install, $50 to reassemble and $32 for all new seals. If people are charging 300+ to do seals you need to find a new shop!
Spend the money where you need it then in a fuel system. And KEEP your current heads.
Spend the money where you need it then in a fuel system. And KEEP your current heads.
01-26-2009, 06:23 PM
#7
He charges shop time ($85/hour), but I stand by this guy 100%. And I inflated that number, it was going to be around $300 w/ the leakdown test before, but I already performed that. Better estmate is around $250, including the $25 for seals from TSP that I'll buy, that's what his charge was when he swapped in my springs after I broke the old one.
I already have a Racetronix Kit, and getting SVO red top 30's on Feb 12 so fuel system is in order. Just dealing w/ the more prominent issues right now.
From what I understand some people have experience a slightly more silent valvetrain w/ ls7's so it's all on a per owner basis I guess.
I already have a Racetronix Kit, and getting SVO red top 30's on Feb 12 so fuel system is in order. Just dealing w/ the more prominent issues right now.
From what I understand some people have experience a slightly more silent valvetrain w/ ls7's so it's all on a per owner basis I guess.
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01-26-2009, 07:06 PM
#8
imo if you love these badass heads this much fix the heads dont sell! swipe out the cam for a pat G. cam, and ls7 lifter to quiten that beast down...and if heads fail you in one small way, sell for etp or prc..... i think that what i would do.....ported fast92 and small wheels + underdrive pully =bigger dyno #s i would think also!!!!
01-26-2009, 10:33 PM
#9
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Seems like you need to invest in some tools. After the cost of doing the springs you could of had a nice little assortment.
So yea keep the heads just fix the problem, I wouldn't but new heads unless you went to AFR, ETP, or TFS something that would be worth the investment.
Goodluck with the problem.
So yea keep the heads just fix the problem, I wouldn't but new heads unless you went to AFR, ETP, or TFS something that would be worth the investment.
Goodluck with the problem.
