Heads only questions
#61
I agree that I would cam first, but if you can bolt on heads in a C5 like nothing, then it may be worth a shot. You should see some nice gains with tuning, but you'll definitely need a cam to really optimize it. I definitely wouldn't do everything to optimize a "heads only" setup, like extensive milling, bigger rockers, etc that will give you PTV issues when you do cam it.
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#62
I say go for it man, clearly there is proof that it will give you gains, not as much as heads and cam would but you cant compair the 2.....
turbo!
#63
I'm thinking of doing heads first on my 01' Z06. Just can't decide if I want to send off the stock 243s for porting/refreshing or get the PRC 5.3s and sell the 243s. I'll bet either, especially with higher ratio rockers will net solid gains and awesome driveability.
#65
i think its a great idea... if you do it, depending on your results, i may just do this on my next DD... i have wondered about it multiple times.. just had no idea if anyone had done it..
i think it is definitely sweet..
#66
I'm doing the exact same thing as the op for the very same reasons stated. Don't be so eager to bash someone so ignorantly for doing something out of the ordinary, especially if you've put a nice engine in a car I don't even know the name of.
FWIW, I'm going with 59cc Patriot 5.3s and plan on rockers for a "decent" gain
#67
http://ls1howto.com/index.php?article=1
From my research, its not that hard..and yes I do wrench on cars and ripped apart my z28.
#68
sprayed z, so adding better heads to a stock cam'd LS1 isn't going to gain any real HP to speak of? Do you have any proof of that or is it just your opinion?
Reason I ask is because I've got a thread backed by several reputable members with a dyono graph showing over 400+rwhp and 400+rwtq. What do you have?
Reason I ask is because I've got a thread backed by several reputable members with a dyono graph showing over 400+rwhp and 400+rwtq. What do you have?
#69
the push for the 5.3s on the board is because they perform and they don't cost alot. on top of that they have good flow without hogging the runners out (better low end) and they bump compression even on stock gaskets.
as for the deal with dynos starting at 3000rpm...i would still consider that "low end". >5000 would be upper rpm.
not many guys would start a race from 1500rpm. and casually driving around town at 1500-2500rpm you aren't too concerned with power since you're not likely going wot much.
but if i get in a street race, i'll downshift to get the rpms up into the mid range.
and if i'm throwing the car around some twisties...i'd aim for the mid range as well so i don't have to worry about shifting in the middle of the apex.
so showing power gains at 3000rpm is useful for me.
as for the deal with dynos starting at 3000rpm...i would still consider that "low end". >5000 would be upper rpm.
not many guys would start a race from 1500rpm. and casually driving around town at 1500-2500rpm you aren't too concerned with power since you're not likely going wot much.
but if i get in a street race, i'll downshift to get the rpms up into the mid range.
and if i'm throwing the car around some twisties...i'd aim for the mid range as well so i don't have to worry about shifting in the middle of the apex.
so showing power gains at 3000rpm is useful for me.
Untill you have owned an Fbody and a Corvette you prob wont understand why he is doing heads only. In an Fbody everyone does cam only cause the cam swap is "easy" where as in a corvette you have to either pull the engine or drop the steering rack out to get the balancer off.
I say go for it man, clearly there is proof that it will give you gains, not as much as heads and cam would but you cant compair the 2.....
turbo!
I say go for it man, clearly there is proof that it will give you gains, not as much as heads and cam would but you cant compair the 2.....
turbo!
#70
#71
It's an rx7 genius.
http://ls1howto.com/index.php?article=1
From my research, its not that hard..and yes I do wrench on cars and ripped apart my z28.
http://ls1howto.com/index.php?article=1
From my research, its not that hard..and yes I do wrench on cars and ripped apart my z28.
All I want are some results from a head only car and for you be constructive or
#74
Enough of replying to the douchebag, put him on "ignore list" and be done.
Machine the "AFR" off the heads and etch in some casting numbers, hehe. This could really go somewhere, it will be pricey, but have no compromises. I also bet it would really surprise, or own lots of half *** heads/cam cars.
Milled AFR205s ported
Ported 92/92 combo, sanded, painted
Tune (maybe injectors)
Take care of the details and I bet you see easily 400/400 and sound like stock with stock MPG and reliability.
Machine the "AFR" off the heads and etch in some casting numbers, hehe. This could really go somewhere, it will be pricey, but have no compromises. I also bet it would really surprise, or own lots of half *** heads/cam cars.
Milled AFR205s ported
Ported 92/92 combo, sanded, painted
Tune (maybe injectors)
Take care of the details and I bet you see easily 400/400 and sound like stock with stock MPG and reliability.
#75
Enough of replying to the douchebag, put him on "ignore list" and be done.
Machine the "AFR" off the heads and etch in some casting numbers, hehe. This could really go somewhere, it will be pricey, but have no compromises. I also bet it would really surprise, or own lots of half *** heads/cam cars.
Milled AFR205s ported
Ported 92/92 combo, sanded, painted
Tune (maybe injectors)
Take care of the details and I bet you see easily 400/400 and sound like stock with stock MPG and reliability.
Machine the "AFR" off the heads and etch in some casting numbers, hehe. This could really go somewhere, it will be pricey, but have no compromises. I also bet it would really surprise, or own lots of half *** heads/cam cars.
Milled AFR205s ported
Ported 92/92 combo, sanded, painted
Tune (maybe injectors)
Take care of the details and I bet you see easily 400/400 and sound like stock with stock MPG and reliability.
i would love to make a mid 11 sleeper trapping 118ish..
#77
TECH Senior Member
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Western Burbs of Detroit
I have posted on this several times and think it's a great way to go. Don't listen to guys who have the knee jerk response "just do the cam." You've got your reasons. Also, your list of cam swap vs. heads swap items/costs is important, especially on a C5. To me, the heads only deal makes sense if:
you put a ton of miles on the car as a daily driver and/or
if the shortblock has tons of miles on it.
My thinking is, to take this as far as it can go and retain 100k mile + reliability, heads, FAST intake, TB, lid, and exhaust are absolutely the way to go. Don't disturb the lower end if you don't have to. My dream combo would be the AFR 205s and the FAST 92/92. Don't listen to the guy who says a tune is worthless with the stock cam, he's misinformed. A GOOD tune regularly grabs 10-25 rwhp on stock/bolt on cars depending on how rich and off the stock tune is. That will only be more true with some good heads.
If you really wanted to go hog wild, Mamo-fy the heads, intake, sand and paint the intake black, use an 02+ LS6 cam/springs, get a good tune and you have the best of all worlds. 400/400 and stock manners/MPG/reliability. Stealthy killer. I put so many miles on my car, I don't want to change springs every year, which is why the stock/LS6 cam is something I have looked into.
I think you're on the right track with looking at a good ported, small runner head to maximize the stock short with no real downside. I'm curious how the new PRC 215s would do, as well as the AFR 205s. I'm surprised more people don't go this way. Some stage 1 or 2 GTP heads would be good for this too, as Craig's approach was always velocity throughout the range.
Keep us posted.
Jason
you put a ton of miles on the car as a daily driver and/or
if the shortblock has tons of miles on it.
My thinking is, to take this as far as it can go and retain 100k mile + reliability, heads, FAST intake, TB, lid, and exhaust are absolutely the way to go. Don't disturb the lower end if you don't have to. My dream combo would be the AFR 205s and the FAST 92/92. Don't listen to the guy who says a tune is worthless with the stock cam, he's misinformed. A GOOD tune regularly grabs 10-25 rwhp on stock/bolt on cars depending on how rich and off the stock tune is. That will only be more true with some good heads.
If you really wanted to go hog wild, Mamo-fy the heads, intake, sand and paint the intake black, use an 02+ LS6 cam/springs, get a good tune and you have the best of all worlds. 400/400 and stock manners/MPG/reliability. Stealthy killer. I put so many miles on my car, I don't want to change springs every year, which is why the stock/LS6 cam is something I have looked into.
I think you're on the right track with looking at a good ported, small runner head to maximize the stock short with no real downside. I'm curious how the new PRC 215s would do, as well as the AFR 205s. I'm surprised more people don't go this way. Some stage 1 or 2 GTP heads would be good for this too, as Craig's approach was always velocity throughout the range.
Keep us posted.
Jason
+1 on this, so when are you pulling the trigger on some heads ?? Did Jason at TSP give you a killer deal on those ported ls6 heads ??
I still say if you are going to go heads only, get the afr's and mill them to bump compression as high as you can go with a stock cam. NOt sure what it it but I think someone said the stock cam doesn't like too high of compression. Ask around. You are 10 to 1 now, so 10.5 or 10.7 to 1 should be safe and helpful.
#80
Feel free to keep discussing however!
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