new lifters with a new cam?
You dont have to, if they have alot of miles and are getting loud it would be a good time to. Hardened push rods, valve springs, and timing chain would be a must for me.
TECH Addict
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907
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From: Bergen County, NJ
That depends on several things - mileage or current condition of the lifters, the type of cam and springs you're going to use, how much additional work do you want to do, etc.
For instance, if you're going with a fairly tame cam and your lifters are in good shape (engine has been well cared for and mileage isn't overly high) the chances are very good that you do not need new lifters.
The common work between changing a cam and changing lifters is really only removing the coil pacs and valve covers and draining the coolant so there is no real advantage to changing lifters "while you're in there". The heads have to come off for new lifters and that's a whole different job.
From what I've seen, read and know - I would guess that about 60% to 70% of cam installs are without new lifters.
Post up what cam you are planning and some details of your car and we can provide a little better guidance.
For instance, if you're going with a fairly tame cam and your lifters are in good shape (engine has been well cared for and mileage isn't overly high) the chances are very good that you do not need new lifters.
The common work between changing a cam and changing lifters is really only removing the coil pacs and valve covers and draining the coolant so there is no real advantage to changing lifters "while you're in there". The heads have to come off for new lifters and that's a whole different job.
From what I've seen, read and know - I would guess that about 60% to 70% of cam installs are without new lifters.
Post up what cam you are planning and some details of your car and we can provide a little better guidance.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Edwards afb cali
just getting an idea i had some dick head try and tell me different, but i have never really heard of people changing them out "while you are in there" for a cam swap, my car has 46k on it and im going with the el torro cam specs, so it wont be anything too drastic. im pretty sure i will be fine without changing them right?
just getting an idea i had some dick head try and tell me different, but i have never really heard of people changing them out "while you are in there" for a cam swap, my car has 46k on it and im going with the el torro cam specs, so it wont be anything too drastic. im pretty sure i will be fine without changing them right?
You won't have issues... spend the money else where.
Simply playing Devil's Advocate here, but the following is from an email that I received from a VERY reputable engine builder / head porter:
"Used lifters....I personally wouldn't run a used lifter on a new cam. You take the chance of wiping out both and then raining hardened small metal debris into your oil pan where its sloshed and thrown around on your piston walls screwing up cylinders, piston skirts, etc. That metal is harder than both your pistons and your cylinder liners and lifter failures can be very costly due to the minor (yet extensive) damage it can create.....ask me how I know?.....LOL
You will get varied opinions but thats mine. In a pinch if the used lifter looks really good its an "OK" gamble but just know your somewhat rolling the dice. Once you get burned a few times trying to cut a corner or two, you start to see the light....LOL Im very **** and somewhat conservative with my engine builds as I have been doing this a long time and have learned its better to save up another few weeks (or months) if thats what it takes and do it right the first time. No regrets....and even that doesnt guarantee you wont have a problem....it just makes it alot less likely.
Keep me posted...."
I'm not really sure if I'm sold either way. My car has 14K on it, but I'm going to be doing heads at the same time, so it's a no-brainer for me. $135.00 for a set of LS7 lifters and I get the peace of mind that they're new. I don't think the guy that told you to replace them was necessarily giving you bad advice.
Good Luck...
Rossi
"Used lifters....I personally wouldn't run a used lifter on a new cam. You take the chance of wiping out both and then raining hardened small metal debris into your oil pan where its sloshed and thrown around on your piston walls screwing up cylinders, piston skirts, etc. That metal is harder than both your pistons and your cylinder liners and lifter failures can be very costly due to the minor (yet extensive) damage it can create.....ask me how I know?.....LOL
You will get varied opinions but thats mine. In a pinch if the used lifter looks really good its an "OK" gamble but just know your somewhat rolling the dice. Once you get burned a few times trying to cut a corner or two, you start to see the light....LOL Im very **** and somewhat conservative with my engine builds as I have been doing this a long time and have learned its better to save up another few weeks (or months) if thats what it takes and do it right the first time. No regrets....and even that doesnt guarantee you wont have a problem....it just makes it alot less likely.
Keep me posted...."
I'm not really sure if I'm sold either way. My car has 14K on it, but I'm going to be doing heads at the same time, so it's a no-brainer for me. $135.00 for a set of LS7 lifters and I get the peace of mind that they're new. I don't think the guy that told you to replace them was necessarily giving you bad advice.
Good Luck...
Rossi
Last edited by Rossi396; Jul 24, 2009 at 09:59 PM.
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TECH Addict
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907
Likes: 1
From: Bergen County, NJ
Simply playing Devil's Advocate here, but the following is from an email that I received from a VERY reputable engine builder / head porter:
"Used lifters....I personally wouldn't run a used lifter on a new cam. You take the chance of wiping out both and then raining hardened small metal debris into your oil pan where its sloshed and thrown around on your piston walls screwing up cylinders, piston skirts, etc. That metal is harder than both your pistons and your cylinder liners and lifter failures can be very costly due to the minor (yet extensive) damage it can create.....ask me how I know?.....LOL
You will get varied opinions but thats mine. In a pinch if the used lifter looks really good its an "OK" gamble but just know your somewhat rolling the dice. Once you get burned a few times trying to cut a corner or two, you start to see the light....LOL Im very **** and somewhat conservative with my engine builds as I have been doing this a long time and have learned its better to save up another few weeks (or months) if thats what it takes and do it right the first time. No regrets....and even that doesnt guarantee you wont have a problem....it just makes it alot less likely.
Keep me posted...."
I'm not really sure if I'm sold either way. My car has 14K on it, but I'm going to be doing heads at the same time, so it's a no-brainer for me. $135.00 for a set of LS7 lifters and I get the peace of mind that they're new. I don't think the guy that told you to replace them was necessarily giving you bad advice.
Good Luck...
Rossi
"Used lifters....I personally wouldn't run a used lifter on a new cam. You take the chance of wiping out both and then raining hardened small metal debris into your oil pan where its sloshed and thrown around on your piston walls screwing up cylinders, piston skirts, etc. That metal is harder than both your pistons and your cylinder liners and lifter failures can be very costly due to the minor (yet extensive) damage it can create.....ask me how I know?.....LOL
You will get varied opinions but thats mine. In a pinch if the used lifter looks really good its an "OK" gamble but just know your somewhat rolling the dice. Once you get burned a few times trying to cut a corner or two, you start to see the light....LOL Im very **** and somewhat conservative with my engine builds as I have been doing this a long time and have learned its better to save up another few weeks (or months) if thats what it takes and do it right the first time. No regrets....and even that doesnt guarantee you wont have a problem....it just makes it alot less likely.
Keep me posted...."
I'm not really sure if I'm sold either way. My car has 14K on it, but I'm going to be doing heads at the same time, so it's a no-brainer for me. $135.00 for a set of LS7 lifters and I get the peace of mind that they're new. I don't think the guy that told you to replace them was necessarily giving you bad advice.
Good Luck...
Rossi
I understand your point, and if you're not doing heads I disagree with the builder. In your case, if it were me - you've got known good lifters with 14k miles on them - I see no advantage to a set of LS7 lifters for your car, I'd leave them alone even if I were doing heads.
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Launching!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 224
Likes: 1
From: Westminster, Md
Plus one on getting lifters anyways. I also only have 46k on my car and I've got a Torquer V.2 waiting to go in but I haven't cut any corners with parts for the swap. I bought a set of LS7 lifters, cheap insurance anyways...imo.
TECH Resident
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 907
Likes: 1
From: NJ
^^^^ I agree Swap them out to be safe...youll always have a hundred guys tell you it will be fine..but its your motor, if a lifter fails the most youll hear from them are, "oh snap, really?" Get a set of Comp 850s and be done with it
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 224
Likes: 1
From: Westminster, Md
Just another tid bit, if you decide to go with LS7 lifters, you need to make sure to measure pushrod length because the lifter cup depth of the LS7 lifters sits approximately .05 higher than stock LS1 lifters. This means, running a shorter pushrod (7.35 or shorter) would most likely be better to reduce valvetrain noise, keep lifter preload within a safe range and also to keep your valvetrain in a all around better geometry.
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 224
Likes: 1
From: Westminster, Md
This is another debated theory, the amount of lifter preload. Of course, I don't see why you would increase lifter preload when the LS7 lifter cup sits .05 higher than stock. However, I won't question Pat G's advice, he's a man that seems to usually know what he's talking about. Anyways, I'm only going off of what I have personally researched and material I've studied. if you really want to make sure you are at the right preload...use a pushrod length checker to measure and go from there. 
This is another debated theory, the amount of lifter preload. Of course, I don't see why you would increase lifter preload when the LS7 lifter cup sits .05 higher than stock. However, I won't question Pat G's advice, he's a man that seems to usually know what he's talking about. Anyways, I'm only going off of what I have personally researched and material I've studied. if you really want to make sure you are at the right preload...use a pushrod length checker to measure and go from there.
Let me get this straight say for example the required pushrod length is anything 7.500 using original LS1 lifters. 7.450 would be correct if using LS7 lifters. Is this correct because if the increased plunger depth?7.400 is the stock length so it would be 7.350 if using the LS7 lifters.
