Aidan

I talked extensively to the guy at LA Sleeve (http://www.lasleeveco.com) on the phone today about his sleeves vs Darton sleeves.

He claims the design on thier sleeves worths equally as good and has ZERO chance of dropping a sleeve because a shoulder on the sleeve that prevents it.


Im very interested in these sleeves (they make 1000's of different ones for different cars/vehicles). He has a 4.125" sleeve for the ls1's.

The sleeves only cost $450 to a dealer/wholesaler. And my local race machine shop only chages about $600 to put them in... anyone think this is a good idea? or know anything about it ??? I know ARE uses a dry sleeve still, I think mti does too and a few other places...

Aidan

ttttt

jmX

MTI switched to Darton sleeves this month I heard.

Some companies have spent YEARS figuring out how to make resleeved LS1's work. If I were you, there's not a chance in hell I'd do what you are suggesting. I don't like pulling/reinstalling engines that much, so I want to make sure its done right the first time. I myself would pay for the extra experience of a shop that has done dozens of LS1's, not just one or two.

...but...I'm not you It certainly looks like a chance to save money, I just wonder if that "chance" will pay out in the end.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

I asked LA Sleeve for a list of customers using using their dry LS1 sleeves.

They said

MTI, LPE & Katech

I was quoted $675 as the cost for the sleeve with typical install labor for the sleeves being ~$500

Max over bore per LA Sleeve is 4.155

Safest over bore is 4.060 per LA Sleeve. They also said Katech said this was the safest overbore

With sleeving a block it's really all in the person doing the work. I know two guys that can sleeve a motor so well it will have less leak down than new block...but this takes skill, the right equipment and time.

The .004 interference fit for an aluminum block scares me but the flange up top is supposed to help prevent issues.

The thermal characteristics are addressed with a special material in the sleeve as I understood from LA Sleeve.

AsianIce25

iTrader: (2)

i dont know, but that sounds like a good deal to me. if you can resleeve an aluminum ls1 block to 4.125 for under 1500, then when eagle comes out with their cheap forgings youll have one hell of a motor for cheap.

already have the block.......$0.00
sleeves............................$450.00
install on sleeves...............$600-1000
Eagle forged 4.00 in crank...$1000
Some nice rods.................$600
Custom pistons.................$750
--------------------------------------------
Total............................... ~$3400-3800 bucks for a nice *** bottom end

This sounds good to me. You could even keep the stock crank and have it offset ground. that would be nice too.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Looks like I was quoted the retail price!

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Hmmm

$450 for sleeves
$600 labor

I'd have ~$1100 in sleeving a block.

Add Eagle crank/rod/pistons $2100

$500 to assemble

$3700 in a 427 short block...wow sounds really too good to be true...

monkeyboy

i know of this machine shop locally that will use the same sleeve in my motor. they are only gonna charge me 900-1050 bucks to resleeve the engine. its no MTI block, but if it works, i will **** in my pants. the dude doing it sounds really confident, even though he has never done it except on marine engines which he claims are 10x more difficult to machine.

Vents

iTrader: (9)

you guys would crap your pants if you founf out how much the sleeves cost that SAM had used in their 9 second solid roller 418..

LS1x2

iTrader: (11)

Go ahead and make us crap our pants then.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Vents we know the wet Dartons cost ~$1300 or so...please tell us who SAM gets their sleeves from and how much they cost.

Warbird

Yes ARE still uses a Darton dry sleeve. They have had huge success with the dry sleeve and have had no problems with leaking or dropping for a very long time. A word of caution, I have watched ARE's machinist install sleeves in a motor and is not a job for anyone who doesn't know what they are doing. When ARE installs thier sleeves, they are truly dry with a fully intact aluminum retainer for the new sleeves. It really is a piece of art when done.

I would have a hard time trusting a block to any shop that hasn't done it before and thi nks it's easy.

Paul

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Aidan, I asked the LA sleeve guy on the phone if he could gaurantee a sleeve wouldn't drop and the answer was no.

monkeyboy

99 black bird t/a, i think that kinda lies in the gray area of guarantee. i think the machine shop would be more responsible if the sleeve dropped.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Monkey...yeah I know...but in Aidan second paragraph in the 1st posted he says:

"He claims the design on thier sleeves worths equally as good and has ZERO chance of dropping a sleeve because a shoulder on the sleeve that prevents it."

Which wasn't what I was told on the phone...just want to make sure we all were on the same page...thanks.

monkeyboy

is it possible that the reason sleeves drop is because the wall between cylinders is too thin and becomes distorted with engine heat. from what i understand, most dropped sleeves occur with a 4.125 bore. maybe if the wall more "meat" between cylinder the aluminum would not distort as much. i was just wondering and any feedback is welcomed.

sbrown99TA

Why on earth would you think they would say "yes, we'll be glad to warranty that sleeve that dropped that your neighbor installed with a hammer and crazy glue". They don't know who put it in, what the motor is going through, etc. Nobody, not Darton, LA Sleeve, etc would warranty a sleeve from dropping.

As for the local machine shop doing it, good luck (luck being the operative word). Being that there are about 6 machine shops in the US that have real experience with LS1 sleeving and it took them a LONG time to figure it out, I'd say there's a good chance....well, you get the picture.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

I didn't think they'd say yes that's why asked and discussed with LA myself.

kossuth

iTrader: (12)

Here is my personal opinion on this. You can go right ahead and try this, (there is nothing wrong with experimentation) as long as you understand that you may or maynot trash a motor. If you are willing to take the chance on trashing a motor then by all means go for it and you may win out in the end, and you will shut up all the non believers. On the other hand you could be a huge sucker. Basically ask yourself if you have the money to put it back together if it comes flying apart. The machinist may warranty it to some degree but who is to say that the sleeve doesn't drop 6 months from now after you have had it going for awhile??? Food for thought. If the guy is that good you think then what the hell go for it.

monkeyboy

i seriously doubt that it requires "luck" to get the process done right. if a machinist knows his math and has skill with the equipment, why wouldnt he be competent enough to do this job? its like the cats outta the bag on the process. just like it was difficult to extract 300cfm outta ls1 heads at first, it is being done now by companies on a regular basis. there is no secret to the process, basically cut out the old sleeve, and machine the new one in with the specified tolerances. why is that so hard? why have more faith in an company like MTI that probably does not do as much machine work as a regular machine shop? i think i will take that chance and i will keep you guys updated.