LS1 block v.s. LS2 block
12-16-2003, 08:36 AM
#21
Launching!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oceanside CA
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by niphilli
Well I have read all the same that you guys have. The LS2 will be a 6L and the LS7 will be a 6.3L.
Here are my assumptions/insights:
LS2: Same blcok that the Escallade uses cast in aluminium along with LS6 heads and a LS-6 crank to keep it reliable in the upper RPMS. (these are guesses).
LS7: Here are where the big changes are. I have read that they are going with the dual cam in block setup with 3 valves per cylinder. This would most definately need a new block & heads. I have also heard that the engine will be high-reving, which suggests to me that they will go the all bore route and keep a similar stroke to the current LS6. All of this is strange to me though because this will most certainly make the LS7 priced significantly higher than the LS2, and pretty much throws parts-sharing between the platforms out the window. Maybe the LS2 will have the dual cam in block as well??? Who knows
Here are my assumptions/insights:
LS2: Same blcok that the Escallade uses cast in aluminium along with LS6 heads and a LS-6 crank to keep it reliable in the upper RPMS. (these are guesses).
LS7: Here are where the big changes are. I have read that they are going with the dual cam in block setup with 3 valves per cylinder. This would most definately need a new block & heads. I have also heard that the engine will be high-reving, which suggests to me that they will go the all bore route and keep a similar stroke to the current LS6. All of this is strange to me though because this will most certainly make the LS7 priced significantly higher than the LS2, and pretty much throws parts-sharing between the platforms out the window. Maybe the LS2 will have the dual cam in block as well??? Who knows
12-16-2003, 09:57 AM
#22
TECH Fanatic
Originally Posted by Scott Turvey
The LS6 will have three valves, but it doesn't require - nor will it have - two cams. If you look at the pics I've added, you'll see the common rocker arm that activates the two intake valves.
Where did you dig up those pics? Any idea on what the "rail" rocker setup is made of? Seems like a LOT of valvetrain mass.
12-16-2003, 03:40 PM
#23
Restricted User
iTrader: (43)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bourbonnais, Illinois
Posts: 1,897
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're right, the WRX is very shiftable. i believe a friend of mind jsut drove 50 minutes with his tranny stuck in 4th gear. 
Originally Posted by kingcuda70
GM SUCKS. as soon as I unload the 99ss I'm getting a nice reliable SHIFTABLE WRX sti or EVO. who cares what new permutations of the LSx they're doing. the dealer network blows, the fit/finish on the f bods sucked and the M6 SUCKS the royal.
thank you for your time.
thank you for your time.
12-16-2003, 03:52 PM
#24
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Your Reality Check Bounced...
Posts: 1,421
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the valve train on that head looks so cumbersome and heavy....it's going to be interesting on seeing how it holds up to high RPM's and power..just looks like there's a lot to break and go wrong....that 1/2 pushrod activating the exhaust valve...oh yeah....something about that just makes me a lil nervous...
12-16-2003, 04:10 PM
#25
yeah that doesnt look too pretty in there, but if it works and works strong then thats good enough for me, wont see it anyway lol.....when are they gonna release the new C6 anyone know? i was hearing in about 4-6 months but i dont really know
12-17-2003, 01:00 AM
#26
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Locust Fork, AL
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think all that "high-tech" mechanical stuff is a waste of time
GM needs to finish up the electric valve stuff, if they want to be able to have a very efficient motor thats cheap and EASILY moddified for more power
GM needs to finish up the electric valve stuff, if they want to be able to have a very efficient motor thats cheap and EASILY moddified for more power
12-17-2003, 01:45 AM
#27
TECH Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scott Turvey, cool pics. Is that an actual prototype LS7 or is it an older project GM had been toying with? I'd love to see more photos if you have them...I'm really interested in LSX development myself.
WS6FirebirdTA00, I think the first C6 will ship around Nov. 2004, so its still a ways off. Hopefully some more official LS2/LS7 news and specs will come out this spring.
WS6FirebirdTA00, I think the first C6 will ship around Nov. 2004, so its still a ways off. Hopefully some more official LS2/LS7 news and specs will come out this spring.
12-17-2003, 01:50 AM
#28
Launching!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oceanside CA
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by niphilli
Hrmmm, interesting. Looks like the pushrods are even in the same location so that the blocks could be shared... This makes more business sense, but if the rumors are true of the LS7 increased displacement there will still be a different block.
Where did you dig up those pics? Any idea on what the "rail" rocker setup is made of? Seems like a LOT of valvetrain mass.
Where did you dig up those pics? Any idea on what the "rail" rocker setup is made of? Seems like a LOT of valvetrain mass.
I don't have any idea what those components are made of, but I can find out if it's of interest.
The 1/2 pushrod JoSeY mentions was the first thing that caught my eye too. My minds eye just pictured a scene with a conversation similar to "Well if we was to put another tab-hang-thing on that shaft-twisty and then run some 9/32nd's solid-core double-taper moly-sumpthin, we could span across to that other-side sub-rocker deal-ie.. 'sides it'd look real Yurripean too!"
12-17-2003, 01:53 AM
#29
Launching!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oceanside CA
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jmX
Scott Turvey, cool pics. Is that an actual prototype LS7 or is it an older project GM had been toying with? I'd love to see more photos if you have them...I'm really interested in LSX development myself.
WS6FirebirdTA00, I think the first C6 will ship around Nov. 2004, so its still a ways off. Hopefully some more official LS2/LS7 news and specs will come out this spring.
WS6FirebirdTA00, I think the first C6 will ship around Nov. 2004, so its still a ways off. Hopefully some more official LS2/LS7 news and specs will come out this spring.
12-17-2003, 01:16 PM
#30
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: WA
Posts: 3,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, those are interesting pics, Scott.
I'm pretty sure I won't be buying the first year...
Intake looks taller and with TB angled off to the pass side.
I'm pretty sure I won't be buying the first year...
Intake looks taller and with TB angled off to the pass side.
Last edited by Fulton 1; 12-17-2003 at 01:23 PM.
12-17-2003, 01:34 PM
#31
Launching!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, I had head that the engine would be single cam as well, but feature a cam phaser, which would result in about 80% efficiency of a dual cam setup (that's what the article I read said, I'm sure that the real world gains wouldn't be as high).
12-17-2003, 01:34 PM
#32
Launching!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, I had heard that the engine would be single cam as well, but feature a cam phaser, which would result in about 80% efficiency of a dual cam setup (that's what the article I read said, I'm sure that the real world gains wouldn't be as high).
12-17-2003, 02:05 PM
#34
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: WA
Posts: 3,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by BurnOut
Wow... that three valve setup looks like a nightmare. More complexity = more **** to break.
12-17-2003, 02:21 PM
#35
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: WA
Posts: 3,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's a few links copied from corvetteforum that show some of the literature and patents on the design.
http://media.gm.com/division/2004_pr...OHV_3valve.pdf
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,505,589
http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/pat...-20030114.html
http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/pat...-20030114.html
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,505,591
http://media.gm.com/division/2004_pr...OHV_3valve.pdf
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,505,589
http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/pat...-20030114.html
http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/pat...-20030114.html
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,505,591
12-18-2003, 05:36 AM
#37
11 Second Club
iTrader: (20)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Jonesboro, Ga
Posts: 1,988
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Me thinks new motor needs to come with valvesprings good for .620 lift stock, because I don't want to have to deal with doing a spring swap on that motor.
Peace,
Peace,
12-18-2003, 11:37 AM
#38
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
umm GM was indire need for some thing "high" tech..
they're trying to squeeze more power and be more efficient..although the pushrods are near outliving their welcome in the auto market.
they're trying to squeeze more power and be more efficient..although the pushrods are near outliving their welcome in the auto market.
12-18-2003, 12:42 PM
#39
Staging Lane
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The Motor City Area
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The engine pictured is of the GenIV TRUCK variety with 3-valve heads, not the LS7.
Also, stating that something "looks heavy" or "too complex" is a bit of a rush to judgement. If the LS1 is the most advanced pushrod engine there is, you can bet that its replacement will really shock the OHC world.
Also, stating that something "looks heavy" or "too complex" is a bit of a rush to judgement. If the LS1 is the most advanced pushrod engine there is, you can bet that its replacement will really shock the OHC world.
12-18-2003, 01:24 PM
#40
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Your Reality Check Bounced...
Posts: 1,421
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by BAD APPLE
The engine pictured is of the GenIV TRUCK variety with 3-valve heads, not the LS7.
Also, stating that something "looks heavy" or "too complex" is a bit of a rush to judgement. If the LS1 is the most advanced pushrod engine there is, you can bet that its replacement will really shock the OHC world.
Also, stating that something "looks heavy" or "too complex" is a bit of a rush to judgement. If the LS1 is the most advanced pushrod engine there is, you can bet that its replacement will really shock the OHC world.