Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

Im not asking for shop packages with max effort conditions. What I want to know from you guys is what YOU consider good for a normal, daily drivable(IE under .600 lift and less than 235 duration) heads/cam package. Lets use an M6 car with full bolt ons and a 12 bolt with 4:11 or bigger. Not including "ringers" or dyno trick cars, no cheating, full belt, full exhaust(dual or single) no elec water pump, steel flywheel, etc etc.

Gimme some #s. I wanna see the general consensus on whats the norm for todays standards. TIA guys




*** Disclaimer for the admins, Im not addressing any PARTICULAR package or car for that matter, just wanting some ideas on where people stand.

HOTROD98Z

iTrader: (1)

420-430rwhp

98SS Blackattack

I think anything over 400 is good. But with all the new heads and cams out there 420 and 430 are becoming common place.

98SS Blackattack

Sh*t i need a faster computer

jrp

iTrader: (16)

to many variables on the setup. 400rwhp+ is very common though.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Here's what I look for/at when people post about their packages.

1.heads and cam package that makes power equal to bolt on set up at 2,200 rpm and gaining power over that set up at every point in the curve. 1pt

2. 350rwtq by 3,500 rpm 1pt

3. 390rwtq+ at 4,000 rpm 1pt

4. Able to pull to 6,500 rpm+ without power band falling off 1pt

5. 425+rwhp w/~224ish cam 1pt

6. 440+rwhp w/230+ cam 1pt

7. Less than 350rwtq at 4,000 rpm is a disqualier as a good package for me in my book. 1pt

8. Super leaned out 13.5 A/F's just for dyno numbers is a disqualier for the package IMO. 1pt

9. Spinning to 7,000 rpm to get the numbers on a stock short block isn't for me. 1pt

10. .590+ lift on the cam, package isn't for me. 1pt

11. Person is happy with the package and the results. 1pt

I score my own set up is 7 out of 10 based on my criteria.

thechef

iTrader: (13)

430 hp is a realistic set up

jrp

iTrader: (16)

thats a great little system you got there

SPANKY LS1

iTrader: (24)

IMO, good numbers for a true daily driver are different from a H/C "weekend warrior" as my and others cars are. To me, anything over 400 is a kick *** daily driver. Now for a weekend warrior or a "race" car, I consider 430+ to be (currently, but growing with more and more 450+ packages) a stout setup, especially for a 12 bolt, and legitimate numbers (no shortbelt, open headers, or other "tricks").

Now, some people will say (Your sig included) that dyno numbers do not mean jack.... I beg to differ (kinda). Dyno numbers from car to car cannot be compared with 100% accuracy. But, if I dyno my car with a H/C setup, and dyno say 420 rwhp through my drivetrain and my exhaust, then I install a different H/C setup then dyno 450 rwhp through my drivetrain and my exhaust, then my car will be faster, period, therby making dyno number comparisons valid, IMO. IE my car (with my 4.30 geared 12 bolt, steel flywheel, and 17x11s) will run better with 450rwhp than it would with 420rwhp, right?

Shawn

Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

Shawn, I agree with your statements in regards dyno #s. My sig is more pointed at comparing one car to another across the country, or seeing a shop post a 450+ car and then everyone on the board thinking they will make that #. In reality, if everyone just wanted a stout dyno # they could put a hair dryer on the weather station and keep their car stock. Track times are more important to me and thus why my sig lists my times. 450rwhp in one car may be good for 11.50s while in a properly setup car it may be good for 10.90s.

SPANKY LS1

iTrader: (24)

I agree that numbers cannot be compared across country, but I don't think its as far off as everyone says it is (assuming, like you said, no dishonest dyno practices). If a dyno operator in Illinois, Georgia, and Texas all try (honestly) to dyno the same setup, I think the numbers will all be close (within reason). My point about dynos is (and has always been) that your car or mine would dyno the same in Texas as it would in Illinois, assuming that the dyno is not "manipulated", and it is allowed to properly correct for weather and other "variables".

Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

Ya got a very key word in your statement and the word is "IF" . As for #s being similar, yes they should be. On that note, I took a car yesterday from one dyno to another and had a peak difference of 7rwhp with no other changes and both dynos were done within an hour of one another.

SPANKY LS1

iTrader: (24)

If is a very imoprtant word. If Grandma had nuts, she'd be Grandpa

Seriously, I can see a 7hp difference between two dynos, machines are not perfect. I doubt it though when I see a car dynoing 430 at one place then 400 at another. Weather it be a dyno "trick" or just incompetence of the operator, the dynos should be closer to each other that, I mean they are supposed to be corrected to a "standard" condition, no? You'll never eliminate dishonesty or get people to stop being greedy, and dyno numbers sell, period. Dyno numbers, unless from a reputable source, should ALWAYS be taken with a grain of salt, IMO.

offaxis

iTrader: (19)

Hey Black Bird

I like the list
What changes would you make if you were talking about a A4 car? Assuming you ment a m6 car. There arent many 450 rwhp a4`s around.

Jeremy

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

Anything 390-430hp is good is realistic for a daily driver H/C setup.The torque curve is more important though.

I wouldn't go too big though for all out HP on a daily driver.My car runs good but really sucks in stop and go traffic with this big cam.My TR224 was alot better in traffic.

Damian

iTrader: (89)

My #'s aren't to shabby considering there are ZERO bs dyno tricks.

If I had 75 bucks to blow i'd do a shortbelt, pop the lid open, take the filter out, air the tires up, and make 470

BLKWS6

love those cam specs josh! haha

1ScrudeDude

Cammin BeaSSt

I also say anything above 400 rwhp is the benchmark. Are you looking for full bolt on package, i.e. ported TB, ported MAF, etc?

I agree that we should limit this cut off to moderate H/C cars and not the "extreme" versions. The extreme packages are going to pull away from the pack, but most of us do need a good degree of streetability. That being said, I'm glad I made it past the "benchmark!" (See sig.)

I could be tapping into more HP with a ported TB and longtubes. 430hp?

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

I like my little Hammer cam and mild (cheap) head package. With mid length headers and low compression(.015 off stock ls1 heads) my car made 20ft lbs. of tq. below 4000 rpms then JSears 440rwhp car on the same dyno. He pulled away above 4000rpms but he ended up stripping his car down and is selling it peice by peice because it was no longer a good street car. He beet me at the track by 2-3 cars with him on et drags and me on Nittos and he ran 120mph full weight to my 118 mph full weight. I sometimes think of going to a little bigger cam but I love the drivabilaty of the Hammer cam and for the money spent on a bigger cam , a 50 shot of Nitrous will get me more for around the same cost and wont cause no more harm as I would not push the moter as hard while spraying.
I shift now at 6500 an my engine peaks at 6200 so with the N2o I would shift around 6200. Let the tq pull it.

SLowETz

iTrader: (12)

Gotta say I agree w/ALL points Spanky listed....especially in the tq. catagory. To add: I like to see tq. at 400 by 4000, and climb to/level off at 5250 w/out falling off "too" dramatically.... as well as hp that continues to climb beyond 6k. No reason why it shouldn't w/good(matched)parts.

JRP..... for the sake of nailing down components for more accurate responses, let's say 5.3's @ 11:1, and a 228/230ish cam, w/lift in the 58x/59x ballpark w/all of the previously mentioned parts?