04 gto m6 motor with tr230 cam LOST POWER ?? BAD CAM ?
11-20-2009, 03:16 PM
#42
You didn't degree the cam, you didn't check preload, and you didn't even gap your plugs? No offense, but are you just lazy or poor? You can get a degree wheel, piston stop, checking springs, and dial indicator with a magnetic base for about $50-60. That's less than a set of pushrods. Since you can't even be sure that the spark plug gap is correct, go back through and gap the plugs, degree the cam, and make sure the preload is correct. That way, you can eliminate the most common variables, and possibly find something you may have missed the first time around.
Good luck and let us know how it all works out. Hopefully you get it all sorted out and find that lost power.
Good luck and let us know how it all works out. Hopefully you get it all sorted out and find that lost power.
11-20-2009, 07:05 PM
#43
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You didn't degree the cam, you didn't check preload, and you didn't even gap your plugs? No offense, but are you just lazy or poor?
Since you can't even be sure that the spark plug gap is correct, go back through and gap the plugs, degree the cam, and make sure the preload is correct. That way, you can eliminate the most common variables, and possibly find something you may have missed the first time around
Looks like you said what everybody's thinking. Tear it back down and get it over with.
11-21-2009, 02:00 AM
#44
TECH Senior Member
That is the Q. Why rely on 1 dyno output? Unless you have proof that another combo with same cam made much more on same dyno.
First I would make sure that these results are conclusive before tearing it down. Thus my advice of taking it to another dyno, a dynojet to be able to compare to the multitude of similar combos around. Get the graph this time
First I would make sure that these results are conclusive before tearing it down. Thus my advice of taking it to another dyno, a dynojet to be able to compare to the multitude of similar combos around. Get the graph this time
11-21-2009, 01:17 PM
#45
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I know of a car with similar cam and it made decent power...I will assure you that it isnt the dyno or teh tuner at all........As i would tear it down and degree and do these other measures before you go blaming the dyno or tuner
11-21-2009, 03:23 PM
#48
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Guys,
Sorry I haven't posted in here earlier. I just noticed this thread. There is obviously something very wrong here and for the most part I think we all agree.
My first guess for your problem is exactly what John told you, the cam is at least one tooth off, maybe more. It seems from the torque bias, it is advanced signifigantly.
Thunderstruk,
Your cam is ground with 3 degrees of advance using a different lobe family than the TR230. I believe this may be the cause of your low numbers. The TR230 has no advance ground in. It is ground "straight up" on a 111LSA with a 111ICL... Try retarding your cam 2 or 3 degrees and see what happens...
Thanks,
Shane
Sorry I haven't posted in here earlier. I just noticed this thread. There is obviously something very wrong here and for the most part I think we all agree.
Ok here is the story. I bought a 04 gto with t56 for a good priced from a wrecked gto. I pulled heads, had them all checked out and pressure tested. I had the comp 925 springs and springs seats installed. I then installed a tr230 reverse split cam I got from TR. I put everything back together with new gm head gaskets, arp head bolts, new crank bolt, seals, intake mani gaskets.. you get the point. I installed the comp hardened pushrods supplied also. 7.4 I believe. The car started right up untuned. I got it tuned at Synergy in Fremont, ca. My friend refereed me there telling me good things. I dont blame his tuning. My car runs great. Issue I'm having is it only makes 291 hp and 294 trq. That's less then stock.
They said to check compression. I check it and it ranged from 180 to 195 on all 8 cyl. My only guess now is a bad cam ? My old 98 fbody engine stock had more pull then this motor does. I thought about the fact that I didn't degree the cam but a couple degree's would not account for nearly 100 hp loss. I was expecting numbers near 400. I have no codes, no knock, spark plugs look titilicious.
Could it in fact be a bad cam ? please anyone with feedback please help the car just is not making me happy what so ever. Put it this was rolling in 1st if i puch the gas WOT it wont even break the tires loose. My old 98 motor would do it on a roll 1st 2nd and 3rd.
They said to check compression. I check it and it ranged from 180 to 195 on all 8 cyl. My only guess now is a bad cam ? My old 98 fbody engine stock had more pull then this motor does. I thought about the fact that I didn't degree the cam but a couple degree's would not account for nearly 100 hp loss. I was expecting numbers near 400. I have no codes, no knock, spark plugs look titilicious.
Could it in fact be a bad cam ? please anyone with feedback please help the car just is not making me happy what so ever. Put it this was rolling in 1st if i puch the gas WOT it wont even break the tires loose. My old 98 motor would do it on a roll 1st 2nd and 3rd.
I have a copy of that cam, I only made 325rwhp/340rwtq on a dynojet cutouts open. Same day I watched mild bolt on ls1 fbodies and GTOs put down the same or better. I since added a FAST intake, but I still have been running 8.3-8.6 1/8th mile times at 83-86mph. Car weighs 3800 with me and a full tank just like a lot of stock fbodies. I race with 1/4 tank and remove tools so race weight is going to be a bit less.
It runs great otherwise. No codes. 190-210 compression in all cylinders. No misses. Idle cams hard.
Please PM me if you find out what's wrong and I will do the same.
I have not pulled the cover and did not degree the cam, but I did install dot to dot and it looked perfect.
It runs great otherwise. No codes. 190-210 compression in all cylinders. No misses. Idle cams hard.
Please PM me if you find out what's wrong and I will do the same.
I have not pulled the cover and did not degree the cam, but I did install dot to dot and it looked perfect.
Your cam is ground with 3 degrees of advance using a different lobe family than the TR230. I believe this may be the cause of your low numbers. The TR230 has no advance ground in. It is ground "straight up" on a 111LSA with a 111ICL... Try retarding your cam 2 or 3 degrees and see what happens...
Thanks,
Shane
pm sent
11-21-2009, 11:24 PM
#53
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by XtracajunSS
Your cam is ground with 3 degrees of advance using a different lobe family than the TR230. I believe this may be the cause of your low numbers. The TR230 has no advance ground in. It is ground "straight up" on a 111LSA with a 111ICL... Try retarding your cam 2 or 3 degrees and see what happens...
11-22-2009, 07:54 PM
#54
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Hi, was at in and out last night and a guy I met named kyle stopped in. I was driving my car .. still sluggish. Anyways he said lets figure it out. I put car on lift, drained coolant, pulled water pump, front pulley, front cover. Put it at top dead center and the crank dot lines up with the cam gear dot perfectly just like I thought.
Ok I will admit, I never checked plug gap, never checked lifter pre load of valve train geometry on pushrod length nor degreed the cam.
Now that i know the cam was installed correctly This makes me a bit more happy. I just stuck because I don't know if the cam is even right. I was reading and there are some bad cams that end up in cars... I know teh tr230 is proven but could there be a chance cam is not right ?
Thanks to everyone and there suggestions. I ask this now. In what order should I check the rest ? I was going to do lifter preload next.. if anything the valves not getting full lift. I don't see the valves getting held open or anything.
Ok I will admit, I never checked plug gap, never checked lifter pre load of valve train geometry on pushrod length nor degreed the cam.
Now that i know the cam was installed correctly This makes me a bit more happy. I just stuck because I don't know if the cam is even right. I was reading and there are some bad cams that end up in cars... I know teh tr230 is proven but could there be a chance cam is not right ?
Thanks to everyone and there suggestions. I ask this now. In what order should I check the rest ? I was going to do lifter preload next.. if anything the valves not getting full lift. I don't see the valves getting held open or anything.
11-22-2009, 08:07 PM
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If your not going to degree the cam. Then I would check lifter preload. If you are running stock rocker arms I don't think your geometry will be off,but anythings possibly. Gap your plugs. If you degree your cam you will know if your cam is ground correctly.
11-22-2009, 08:10 PM
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ok cool . I will buy a degree wheel tomorrow. I have never done it but there is a lot of writeups I have seen.. Would plug gap really loose me that much power. I know on turbo setups if gap is to big the boost will blow out the spark.
11-22-2009, 08:23 PM
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I clean up a lot of customer "tune ups" by gaping plugs they installed right out of the box. Most of the time they have misfires with a loss of power. You might pull the plugs and check the gap and the condition. Its hard to diag over the Internet. If you have it tore down degree the cam and rule that out.
11-22-2009, 08:52 PM
#59
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ok cool I have stock rockers. I will degree it. btw I just checked the gap on my ngk tr-55 plugs and its set at .060. Only other thing I can think to do also is to change out the cam sensor. That's what was suggested on page 2.
Last edited by daftdrifting; 11-22-2009 at 11:35 PM.
11-22-2009, 11:57 PM
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A crude way to do it is to just count the number of turns from zero lash to 22 ft/lbs. Each full turn is about .046 inches of preload, give or take a couple thousandths. You can do it pretty quick, just pull off a valve cover and find a lifter that is on it's base circle. Loosen the bolt, then spin it back on until it is "finger tight" and count turns to 22 ft/lbs. You should probably do a rocker on both the intake and exhaust, just to be sure.
I did just this and i almost got it to turn 2 full turns at 22lbs so my preload is roughly .092 . is this ok ?