gm fails again.......lifter
01-02-2010, 10:40 AM
#26
...
01-02-2010, 10:57 AM
#27
I think all of these failures need to be tracked against the valvetrain setup.
Exactly what lobes are being used, XE, XER, LSL, LSK etc? That or post the duration at .006 and .050 so the rate can be calculated. Perhaps the aggresive lobes are side loading the roller and that in turn damages the bearings.
What springs?
Lifter preload?
Exactly what lobes are being used, XE, XER, LSL, LSK etc? That or post the duration at .006 and .050 so the rate can be calculated. Perhaps the aggresive lobes are side loading the roller and that in turn damages the bearings.
What springs?
Lifter preload?
01-02-2010, 11:16 AM
#28
ok this is not good to hear 
am i wrong in thinking this is the same lifter used in all the LSX engine from GM???? why would one not fail in a 505 hp LS7 engine and it would fail in people's engines they build? poor installation maybe? i'm not sayin the OP fucked up on installin this set and the caddy set but if 2 sets of lifters go out on you i'd be thinking about having some help installing the next ones. btw did it happen on the same lifter or was a different one in the engine?
am i wrong in thinking this is the same lifter used in all the LSX engine from GM???? why would one not fail in a 505 hp LS7 engine and it would fail in people's engines they build? poor installation maybe? i'm not sayin the OP fucked up on installin this set and the caddy set but if 2 sets of lifters go out on you i'd be thinking about having some help installing the next ones. btw did it happen on the same lifter or was a different one in the engine?
01-02-2010, 11:48 AM
#29
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I think all of these failures need to be tracked against the valvetrain setup.
Exactly what lobes are being used, XE, XER, LSL, LSK etc? That or post the duration at .006 and .050 so the rate can be calculated. Perhaps the aggresive lobes are side loading the roller and that in turn damages the bearings.
What springs?
Lifter preload?
Exactly what lobes are being used, XE, XER, LSL, LSK etc? That or post the duration at .006 and .050 so the rate can be calculated. Perhaps the aggresive lobes are side loading the roller and that in turn damages the bearings.
What springs?
Lifter preload?
01-02-2010, 12:20 PM
#30
Especially since there are Millions of these in millions of vehicles. Every GM truck, for example, since 1999 uses the same lifter or its replacement. The cars are a blip on the radar for actual volume of vehicles with LS based engines. Actually the Buick 3800 also used the same lifter, that volume huge.
When we see failures on here we get concerned but in the big picture the failure rate is very low. It is hard to compare the Morels or Comp failures since there is no real data to say how many have been sold, how many miles or hours used and they certainly won't give out their warranty data.
With all of that said, if you are building a purpose built engine for racing, don't put in the production lifters. The Caddy ones are not meant for daily driving, they have lighter weight components and are for racing. The stock "LS7" is a great lifter when used in most all LSx based applications except the most extreme situations.
I would be willing to help compile data if people post everything needed, getting the exact cam specs will be the hardest since people either don't know all of the data or they want it to be a secret.
When we see failures on here we get concerned but in the big picture the failure rate is very low. It is hard to compare the Morels or Comp failures since there is no real data to say how many have been sold, how many miles or hours used and they certainly won't give out their warranty data.
With all of that said, if you are building a purpose built engine for racing, don't put in the production lifters. The Caddy ones are not meant for daily driving, they have lighter weight components and are for racing. The stock "LS7" is a great lifter when used in most all LSx based applications except the most extreme situations.
I would be willing to help compile data if people post everything needed, getting the exact cam specs will be the hardest since people either don't know all of the data or they want it to be a secret.
01-02-2010, 12:31 PM
#31
ok this is not good to hear am i wrong in thinking this is the same lifter used in all the LSX engine from GM???? why would one not fail in a 505 hp LS7 engine and it would fail in people's engines they build? poor installation maybe? i'm not sayin the OP fucked up on installin this set and the caddy set but if 2 sets of lifters go out on you i'd be thinking about having some help installing the next ones. btw did it happen on the same lifter or was a different one in the engine?
am i wrong in thinking this is the same lifter used in all the LSX engine from GM???? why would one not fail in a 505 hp LS7 engine and it would fail in people's engines they build? poor installation maybe? i'm not sayin the OP fucked up on installin this set and the caddy set but if 2 sets of lifters go out on you i'd be thinking about having some help installing the next ones. btw did it happen on the same lifter or was a different one in the engine?
01-02-2010, 12:45 PM
#32
ok this is not good to hear am i wrong in thinking this is the same lifter used in all the LSX engine from GM???? why would one not fail in a 505 hp LS7 engine and it would fail in people's engines they build? poor installation maybe? i'm not sayin the OP fucked up on installin this set and the caddy set but if 2 sets of lifters go out on you i'd be thinking about having some help installing the next ones. btw did it happen on the same lifter or was a different one in the engine?
am i wrong in thinking this is the same lifter used in all the LSX engine from GM???? why would one not fail in a 505 hp LS7 engine and it would fail in people's engines they build? poor installation maybe? i'm not sayin the OP fucked up on installin this set and the caddy set but if 2 sets of lifters go out on you i'd be thinking about having some help installing the next ones. btw did it happen on the same lifter or was a different one in the engine?The LS7 has a small cam with very tame lobes and light valve springs.
The OP's car has a big cam with aggressive lobes and heavy valve springs which makes for a more extreme environment for the lifter.
01-02-2010, 01:26 PM
#33
It has little to do with HP - it has more to do with the valve train.
The LS7 has a small cam with very tame lobes and light valve springs.
The OP's car has a big cam with aggressive lobes and heavy valve springs which makes for a more extreme environment for the lifter.
The LS7 has a small cam with very tame lobes and light valve springs.
The OP's car has a big cam with aggressive lobes and heavy valve springs which makes for a more extreme environment for the lifter.
01-02-2010, 02:25 PM
#34
When it happened to me, it was in an LT1, and it destroyed the oil pump too...so it might be worth taking your pump apart and checking it out...if it's ok, the bottom end is probaly ok...if it's hurt...you might want to invest in new bearings before you fire it back up with a new cam/lifters and lose the rest of the engine like I did (I was younger and didn't know better).
Last edited by Mike454SS; 01-02-2010 at 03:23 PM.
01-02-2010, 04:22 PM
#36
As I posted prior I had an LS7 fail at 1700 miles. L92 Cylinder Heads, 7.4" Chromemoly Pushrods, L92 Rocker Arms, Pedestals & Bolts, PRC
Gold Double Valvesprings /w Titanium Retainers locks/seals/bases, Comp Cams XE-R lobed grind - 237/242 duration @ .050, .603/.609 lift, 112 LSA.
This happens for a reason is it oiling problems, cam or bad install? does anyone have any thoughts.
Gold Double Valvesprings /w Titanium Retainers locks/seals/bases, Comp Cams XE-R lobed grind - 237/242 duration @ .050, .603/.609 lift, 112 LSA.
This happens for a reason is it oiling problems, cam or bad install? does anyone have any thoughts.
01-02-2010, 06:26 PM
#37
patriot extremes on both motors. .080 on the caddys i had and .065 on these. per katechs recomendation.
it has more to do with the construction of the peices then anything i would bet. im not a professional engine builder but i do know what im doing. different engine entirely.
+1
at the time i built this motor it was widely regarded as the lifter to use. and 98% of the motors on this site prob have them in there. and gm doesnt use a donket dick cam for reasons such as emissions and driveability etc. it has nothing to do with the lifters they use.
ok this is not good to hear am i wrong in thinking this is the same lifter used in all the LSX engine from GM???? why would one not fail in a 505 hp LS7 engine and it would fail in people's engines they build? poor installation maybe? i'm not sayin the OP fucked up on installin this set and the caddy set but if 2 sets of lifters go out on you i'd be thinking about having some help installing the next ones. btw did it happen on the same lifter or was a different one in the engine?
am i wrong in thinking this is the same lifter used in all the LSX engine from GM???? why would one not fail in a 505 hp LS7 engine and it would fail in people's engines they build? poor installation maybe? i'm not sayin the OP fucked up on installin this set and the caddy set but if 2 sets of lifters go out on you i'd be thinking about having some help installing the next ones. btw did it happen on the same lifter or was a different one in the engine?It has little to do with HP - it has more to do with the valve train.
The LS7 has a small cam with very tame lobes and light valve springs.
The OP's car has a big cam with aggressive lobes and heavy valve springs which makes for a more extreme environment for the lifter.
The LS7 has a small cam with very tame lobes and light valve springs.
The OP's car has a big cam with aggressive lobes and heavy valve springs which makes for a more extreme environment for the lifter.
at the time i built this motor it was widely regarded as the lifter to use. and 98% of the motors on this site prob have them in there. and gm doesnt use a donket dick cam for reasons such as emissions and driveability etc. it has nothing to do with the lifters they use.
01-02-2010, 06:43 PM
#38
it has more to do with the construction of the peices then anything i would bet. im not a professional engine builder but i do know what im doing. different engine entirely. at the time i built this motor it was widely regarded as the lifter to use. and 98% of the motors on this site prob have them in there. and gm doesnt use a donkey dick cam for reasons such as emissions and driveability etc. it has nothing to do with the lifters they use.
01-02-2010, 06:57 PM
#40
I am still trying to figure out how you guys think he could have installed the lifter improperly... I clean mine blow them out, Oil the needle bearings and then soak them the night before install. You put the lifter in the lifter box and then slide them in the bores, IF the guy is capable of doing his head and cam swap, they I highly doubt he screwed up the install of the lifters...
Sorry about your bad luck bro. Hope you have better luck when you put it back together.
Sorry about your bad luck bro. Hope you have better luck when you put it back together.