gm fails again.......lifter
01-06-2010, 11:02 PM
#61
Yes sir ! 
01-10-2010, 07:05 PM
#65
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LS2 BAIT,
i just wanted to make sure im following you here. i thought i read that you were adjusting the lifter preload. did you just use different length PRs to give the preload you want? i dont see anyway to make an adjustment with the LS style "shaft mounted" rockers.
i did it on my LT1, but without the lifter valley open to see how deep the PR is going into the lifter's pocket, i dont know how your measuring it. i just used the "rocker arm geometry" info that i found from comp cams....
learn me something here....
oh, by the way. your car is sick! very clean and looks like it HOOKS UP!
i just wanted to make sure im following you here. i thought i read that you were adjusting the lifter preload. did you just use different length PRs to give the preload you want? i dont see anyway to make an adjustment with the LS style "shaft mounted" rockers.
i did it on my LT1, but without the lifter valley open to see how deep the PR is going into the lifter's pocket, i dont know how your measuring it. i just used the "rocker arm geometry" info that i found from comp cams....
learn me something here....
oh, by the way. your car is sick! very clean and looks like it HOOKS UP!
01-10-2010, 08:05 PM
#68
LS2 BAIT,
i just wanted to make sure im following you here. i thought i read that you were adjusting the lifter preload. did you just use different length PRs to give the preload you want? i dont see anyway to make an adjustment with the LS style "shaft mounted" rockers.
i did it on my LT1, but without the lifter valley open to see how deep the PR is going into the lifter's pocket, i dont know how your measuring it. i just used the "rocker arm geometry" info that i found from comp cams....
learn me something here....
oh, by the way. your car is sick! very clean and looks like it HOOKS UP!
i just wanted to make sure im following you here. i thought i read that you were adjusting the lifter preload. did you just use different length PRs to give the preload you want? i dont see anyway to make an adjustment with the LS style "shaft mounted" rockers.
i did it on my LT1, but without the lifter valley open to see how deep the PR is going into the lifter's pocket, i dont know how your measuring it. i just used the "rocker arm geometry" info that i found from comp cams....
learn me something here....
oh, by the way. your car is sick! very clean and looks like it HOOKS UP!
01-10-2010, 09:14 PM
#69
when i built this motor almost 2 yrs ago this was talked about being the lifter to use. supposidly it was good enough for 7000+ rpm in a zo6 so it was good for this. and the cam lobes i was using (lsl lobes) had only been released for a couple weeks so it was new. sometimes you pay a price when you have to have the newest stuff on the market. just like my blackbery storm cell phone. i waited for 3 months for it to get here and a yr later im on number 5
When you say it was talked about, who did you talk about this with? Did Comp Cams tell you this was the lifter to use? I say this quessing the cam was from CC. I can't image them telling you to use a lifter that was not tested.
01-11-2010, 11:24 AM
#70
The last engine that I built I was tight on money and found some used LS1 lifters in a bag in my garage. I cleaned them well in a solvent tank and used them for almost 2 years. I recently pulled the engine down to change some things and thought I should change the lifters, since they were the only peice not new when I built the engine.
I bought some new lifters that I will not mention the name of, I wanted to pull them apart just to see how the components compared to the stock lifters I had. When I was pulling them apart I could tell the lifters were not perfectly clean, they felt a little "gritty". This really bothers me because the ball that has to seat to keep the lifter pumped up will not tolerate any grit and still seal.
I would think this type of grit could do the same thing in the wheel. We've had Ford followers fail on the dyno at the bearing, and I know they were cleaned very well, but probably not good enough. Food for thought.
I bought some new lifters that I will not mention the name of, I wanted to pull them apart just to see how the components compared to the stock lifters I had. When I was pulling them apart I could tell the lifters were not perfectly clean, they felt a little "gritty". This really bothers me because the ball that has to seat to keep the lifter pumped up will not tolerate any grit and still seal.
I would think this type of grit could do the same thing in the wheel. We've had Ford followers fail on the dyno at the bearing, and I know they were cleaned very well, but probably not good enough. Food for thought.
01-11-2010, 12:09 PM
#71
i didn't read these 4 pages but when I did my heads/cam I used 2 sets of LS7's and they both failed. I switched to comp 850's and they've been great so far. Much quieter than the ls7's were.
01-11-2010, 04:41 PM
#72
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thanks for explaining. thats the only way i could see it done (with a PR). i just wanted to know if there was something that i didnt know about...
anyone seen the march 2010 issue of chevy high performance? they are rebuilding a carbed 404ci LS3. i found the valvetrain pretty interesting.
comp serious duty triple springs and 1.7 shaft rockers that look to have an adjustable lash capability. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1500
and check this out....a comp solid roller cam 277/288 at .050 .834/.800!!!! on a 113. they didnt mention what lifters they were, using but im assuming they are comp solid rollers that 69lt1bird posted a link to.
i was wondering if its possible to go with a flat tappet set up. anyone make a cam for this? and would the tappets fit? i was just wondering since it seems to be the rollers that are failing on theses lifters. im assuming it cant be done since the tappets are meant to spin freely while the rollers are obviously mean to stay straight to roller on the lobes.
anyone???
anyone seen the march 2010 issue of chevy high performance? they are rebuilding a carbed 404ci LS3. i found the valvetrain pretty interesting.
comp serious duty triple springs and 1.7 shaft rockers that look to have an adjustable lash capability. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1500
and check this out....a comp solid roller cam 277/288 at .050 .834/.800!!!! on a 113. they didnt mention what lifters they were, using but im assuming they are comp solid rollers that 69lt1bird posted a link to.
i was wondering if its possible to go with a flat tappet set up. anyone make a cam for this? and would the tappets fit? i was just wondering since it seems to be the rollers that are failing on theses lifters. im assuming it cant be done since the tappets are meant to spin freely while the rollers are obviously mean to stay straight to roller on the lobes.
anyone???
01-12-2010, 06:54 AM
#75
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Here you go:
FWIW, EVERY cam install I have done using the LS7 lifter with a cam with greater than .600" lift (read smaller base circle) AND stock heads w/GM MLS gaskets has taken 7.425" pushrods for ~.050"-.060" preload. We measure lifter preload on each and every cam install we do. I have never had a lifter failure nor do we end up with the dreaded "sewing machine" noise.
Its very simple, If you change ANY of the following:
valve sizes, valve job, head milling, thinner/thicker head gaskets, decked block, cam with an altered base circle, etc... YOU MUST CHECK FOR PROPER PUSHROD LENGTH.
I have helped countless numbers of individuals with this process over the phone, via email, and PM's. I've posted the process on at least 3 occasions.
Here it is again in a nutshell:
1. Using the EO/IC method, get the lifter to the base circle of the cam.
2. Using a known length pushrod (7.400" is a good start with stock rockers) run the rocker arm bolt down to zero lash. This is easily done with your fingers "wiggling" the rocker, the point at which the "slack" is just gone is zero lash.
3. Set your torque wrench to 22 lb./ft. Tighten the rocker to full torque and count the number of turns it takes to get there. 1 full turn wtih a stock 8mm X 1.25 bolt is ~.047" preload as measured at the pushrod/rocker interface.
4. I normally shoot for 1 1/4 to 1 3/4 turns with stock type lifters like Comp 850's, LS1, LS7 etc.
For an example, if you use a 7.400" pushrod and come up with 3/4 of a turn, you will need at least .025" longer pushrod to get into range. If you end up with 2 1/4 turns, you will need one .025" shorter...
I might not know everything but I will tell you that this method has worked for me year after year cam swap after cam swap. We average 3 cam swaps a week here so you can do the math.
If you are not familiar with the EO/IC method for determining valve events in a 4 stroke engine, its very simple:
For a given cylinder as the Exhaust valve is Opening, the intake lifter will be on the base circle of the cam and lash/preload should be checked for that intake valve.
For a given cylinder as the Intake valve is Closing, the exhaust lifter will be on the base circle of the cam and lash/preload should be checked for that exhaust valve.
THIS METHOD ALWAYS WORKS!!!
I hope this helps someone. I have explained it so many times I think I do it in my sleep!!!
Shane
Its very simple, If you change ANY of the following:
valve sizes, valve job, head milling, thinner/thicker head gaskets, decked block, cam with an altered base circle, etc... YOU MUST CHECK FOR PROPER PUSHROD LENGTH.
I have helped countless numbers of individuals with this process over the phone, via email, and PM's. I've posted the process on at least 3 occasions.
Here it is again in a nutshell:
1. Using the EO/IC method, get the lifter to the base circle of the cam.
2. Using a known length pushrod (7.400" is a good start with stock rockers) run the rocker arm bolt down to zero lash. This is easily done with your fingers "wiggling" the rocker, the point at which the "slack" is just gone is zero lash.
3. Set your torque wrench to 22 lb./ft. Tighten the rocker to full torque and count the number of turns it takes to get there. 1 full turn wtih a stock 8mm X 1.25 bolt is ~.047" preload as measured at the pushrod/rocker interface.
4. I normally shoot for 1 1/4 to 1 3/4 turns with stock type lifters like Comp 850's, LS1, LS7 etc.
For an example, if you use a 7.400" pushrod and come up with 3/4 of a turn, you will need at least .025" longer pushrod to get into range. If you end up with 2 1/4 turns, you will need one .025" shorter...
I might not know everything but I will tell you that this method has worked for me year after year cam swap after cam swap. We average 3 cam swaps a week here so you can do the math.
If you are not familiar with the EO/IC method for determining valve events in a 4 stroke engine, its very simple:
For a given cylinder as the Exhaust valve is Opening, the intake lifter will be on the base circle of the cam and lash/preload should be checked for that intake valve.
For a given cylinder as the Intake valve is Closing, the exhaust lifter will be on the base circle of the cam and lash/preload should be checked for that exhaust valve.
THIS METHOD ALWAYS WORKS!!!
I hope this helps someone. I have explained it so many times I think I do it in my sleep!!!
Shane
01-13-2010, 10:51 PM
#76
please don't take this wrong because I'm just asking......
When you say it was talked about, who did you talk about this with? Did Comp Cams tell you this was the lifter to use? I say this quessing the cam was from CC. I can't image them telling you to use a lifter that was not tested.
When you say it was talked about, who did you talk about this with? Did Comp Cams tell you this was the lifter to use? I say this quessing the cam was from CC. I can't image them telling you to use a lifter that was not tested.
01-14-2010, 12:27 AM
#77
I understand but I'm just really suprised they didn't give you advise to use their own lifters.
I wonder if anyone on this site using LS7 lifters was advised to do so from the cam manufactor. It just doesn't make since for them to advise someone to use an OEM product with an aftermarket product especially when they offer a lifter.
I'm sure your problem will be solved now.
I wonder if anyone on this site using LS7 lifters was advised to do so from the cam manufactor. It just doesn't make since for them to advise someone to use an OEM product with an aftermarket product especially when they offer a lifter.
I'm sure your problem will be solved now.
01-14-2010, 10:34 PM
#79
I understand but I'm just really suprised they didn't give you advise to use their own lifters.
I wonder if anyone on this site using LS7 lifters was advised to do so from the cam manufactor. It just doesn't make since for them to advise someone to use an OEM product with an aftermarket product especially when they offer a lifter.
I'm sure your problem will be solved now.
I wonder if anyone on this site using LS7 lifters was advised to do so from the cam manufactor. It just doesn't make since for them to advise someone to use an OEM product with an aftermarket product especially when they offer a lifter.
I'm sure your problem will be solved now.
01-18-2010, 09:15 PM
#80
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I went with Morels on my LS2 as well. Set the preload at .040 as recomended by Chris Straub. I also went with a set of Manton 11/32 pushrods dont forget about the benefit of a quality pushrod working with those lifters.