Generation III Internal Engine 1997-2006 LS1 | LS6
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

gm fails again.......lifter

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-06-2010, 11:02 PM
  #61  
Banned
iTrader: (8)
 
ae13291's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: san fernando valley, california
Posts: 3,093
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

goodluck with the lifters, sucks to see more and more ls7 lifters fail, i wanted to go that route, but i am thinking twice since i see so many have been failing.
Old 01-10-2010, 12:21 PM
  #62  
9 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
ls2 bait's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: in your closet
Posts: 4,508
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by 99blancoSS
Yes sir !
Thank you
LOLOL! so i open my package from cc performance this am and lookey what we have, lifters wrapped in cute little bunny wrapping paper with a bow on it! lol. thank you sir, they are very "pretty" lol.
Old 01-10-2010, 02:48 PM
  #63  
Banned
iTrader: (115)
 
99blancoSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ST Helens, OR
Posts: 9,892
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

I thought you might like that (you said they had better be ******* pretty) we aim to please !
Old 01-10-2010, 06:14 PM
  #64  
9 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
ls2 bait's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: in your closet
Posts: 4,508
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts

Default

kudos to you man. i laughed for a good 10 min about it. now thats customer service! haha.
Old 01-10-2010, 07:05 PM
  #65  
TECH Regular
 
SS#1230's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

LS2 BAIT,

i just wanted to make sure im following you here. i thought i read that you were adjusting the lifter preload. did you just use different length PRs to give the preload you want? i dont see anyway to make an adjustment with the LS style "shaft mounted" rockers.

i did it on my LT1, but without the lifter valley open to see how deep the PR is going into the lifter's pocket, i dont know how your measuring it. i just used the "rocker arm geometry" info that i found from comp cams....

learn me something here....

oh, by the way. your car is sick! very clean and looks like it HOOKS UP!
Old 01-10-2010, 07:54 PM
  #66  
TECH Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
printmanjackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

this may have already been asked but why would you not ask the company you bought the cam from for what lifter to use. I would think they have already tested and would sell a product that would last.
Old 01-10-2010, 07:59 PM
  #67  
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (8)
 
OffspringZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

Good luck man. I'm a huge fan of your car. Congrats on the GMHTP as well!
Old 01-10-2010, 08:05 PM
  #68  
9 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
ls2 bait's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: in your closet
Posts: 4,508
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by SS#1230
LS2 BAIT,

i just wanted to make sure im following you here. i thought i read that you were adjusting the lifter preload. did you just use different length PRs to give the preload you want? i dont see anyway to make an adjustment with the LS style "shaft mounted" rockers.

i did it on my LT1, but without the lifter valley open to see how deep the PR is going into the lifter's pocket, i dont know how your measuring it. i just used the "rocker arm geometry" info that i found from comp cams....

learn me something here....

oh, by the way. your car is sick! very clean and looks like it HOOKS UP!
i didnt adjust the preload, i just set it to what i want by changing pushrod length. put the cam on the base circle, put a pushrod length checker on the lifter, torqued down the rocker arms, then measured the length checker and added the preload i wanted to the length and ordered pushrods. which in this case ended up at .065 preload. (pushrod was .065 longer then the checker measured) and thank you

Originally Posted by printmanjackson
this may have already been asked but why would you not ask the company you bought the cam from for what lifter to use. I would think they have already tested and would sell a product that would last.
when i built this motor almost 2 yrs ago this was talked about being the lifter to use. supposidly it was good enough for 7000+ rpm in a zo6 so it was good for this. and the cam lobes i was using (lsl lobes) had only been released for a couple weeks so it was new. sometimes you pay a price when you have to have the newest stuff on the market. just like my blackbery storm cell phone. i waited for 3 months for it to get here and a yr later im on number 5
Old 01-10-2010, 09:14 PM
  #69  
TECH Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
printmanjackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by ls2 bait
when i built this motor almost 2 yrs ago this was talked about being the lifter to use. supposidly it was good enough for 7000+ rpm in a zo6 so it was good for this. and the cam lobes i was using (lsl lobes) had only been released for a couple weeks so it was new. sometimes you pay a price when you have to have the newest stuff on the market. just like my blackbery storm cell phone. i waited for 3 months for it to get here and a yr later im on number 5
please don't take this wrong because I'm just asking......

When you say it was talked about, who did you talk about this with? Did Comp Cams tell you this was the lifter to use? I say this quessing the cam was from CC. I can't image them telling you to use a lifter that was not tested.
Old 01-11-2010, 11:24 AM
  #70  
FormerVendor
iTrader: (13)
 
Brian Tooley Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bardstown, KY
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts

Default

The last engine that I built I was tight on money and found some used LS1 lifters in a bag in my garage. I cleaned them well in a solvent tank and used them for almost 2 years. I recently pulled the engine down to change some things and thought I should change the lifters, since they were the only peice not new when I built the engine.

I bought some new lifters that I will not mention the name of, I wanted to pull them apart just to see how the components compared to the stock lifters I had. When I was pulling them apart I could tell the lifters were not perfectly clean, they felt a little "gritty". This really bothers me because the ball that has to seat to keep the lifter pumped up will not tolerate any grit and still seal.

I would think this type of grit could do the same thing in the wheel. We've had Ford followers fail on the dyno at the bearing, and I know they were cleaned very well, but probably not good enough. Food for thought.
Old 01-11-2010, 12:09 PM
  #71  
TECH Addict
iTrader: (14)
 
sscamaroburn02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,053
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts

Default

i didn't read these 4 pages but when I did my heads/cam I used 2 sets of LS7's and they both failed. I switched to comp 850's and they've been great so far. Much quieter than the ls7's were.
Old 01-11-2010, 04:41 PM
  #72  
TECH Regular
 
SS#1230's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

thanks for explaining. thats the only way i could see it done (with a PR). i just wanted to know if there was something that i didnt know about...

anyone seen the march 2010 issue of chevy high performance? they are rebuilding a carbed 404ci LS3. i found the valvetrain pretty interesting.

comp serious duty triple springs and 1.7 shaft rockers that look to have an adjustable lash capability. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1500

and check this out....a comp solid roller cam 277/288 at .050 .834/.800!!!! on a 113. they didnt mention what lifters they were, using but im assuming they are comp solid rollers that 69lt1bird posted a link to.

i was wondering if its possible to go with a flat tappet set up. anyone make a cam for this? and would the tappets fit? i was just wondering since it seems to be the rollers that are failing on theses lifters. im assuming it cant be done since the tappets are meant to spin freely while the rollers are obviously mean to stay straight to roller on the lobes.

anyone???
Old 01-11-2010, 05:03 PM
  #73  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
 
01ssreda4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 79 Likes on 70 Posts

Default

My LS7s have been perfect so far with preload figured using Shane at TRs method.
Old 01-11-2010, 11:30 PM
  #74  
TECH Regular
 
SS#1230's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by 01ssreda4
My LS7s have been perfect so far with preload figured using Shane at TRs method.
what's his method?
Old 01-12-2010, 06:54 AM
  #75  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
 
01ssreda4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 79 Likes on 70 Posts

Default

Here you go:

Originally Posted by XtraCajunSS
FWIW, EVERY cam install I have done using the LS7 lifter with a cam with greater than .600" lift (read smaller base circle) AND stock heads w/GM MLS gaskets has taken 7.425" pushrods for ~.050"-.060" preload. We measure lifter preload on each and every cam install we do. I have never had a lifter failure nor do we end up with the dreaded "sewing machine" noise.

Its very simple, If you change ANY of the following:
valve sizes, valve job, head milling, thinner/thicker head gaskets, decked block, cam with an altered base circle, etc... YOU MUST CHECK FOR PROPER PUSHROD LENGTH.

I have helped countless numbers of individuals with this process over the phone, via email, and PM's. I've posted the process on at least 3 occasions.

Here it is again in a nutshell:

1. Using the EO/IC method, get the lifter to the base circle of the cam.
2. Using a known length pushrod (7.400" is a good start with stock rockers) run the rocker arm bolt down to zero lash. This is easily done with your fingers "wiggling" the rocker, the point at which the "slack" is just gone is zero lash.
3. Set your torque wrench to 22 lb./ft. Tighten the rocker to full torque and count the number of turns it takes to get there. 1 full turn wtih a stock 8mm X 1.25 bolt is ~.047" preload as measured at the pushrod/rocker interface.
4. I normally shoot for 1 1/4 to 1 3/4 turns with stock type lifters like Comp 850's, LS1, LS7 etc.

For an example, if you use a 7.400" pushrod and come up with 3/4 of a turn, you will need at least .025" longer pushrod to get into range. If you end up with 2 1/4 turns, you will need one .025" shorter...

I might not know everything but I will tell you that this method has worked for me year after year cam swap after cam swap. We average 3 cam swaps a week here so you can do the math.

If you are not familiar with the EO/IC method for determining valve events in a 4 stroke engine, its very simple:
For a given cylinder as the Exhaust valve is Opening, the intake lifter will be on the base circle of the cam and lash/preload should be checked for that intake valve.
For a given cylinder as the Intake valve is Closing, the exhaust lifter will be on the base circle of the cam and lash/preload should be checked for that exhaust valve.

THIS METHOD ALWAYS WORKS!!!

I hope this helps someone. I have explained it so many times I think I do it in my sleep!!!

Shane
Old 01-13-2010, 10:51 PM
  #76  
9 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
ls2 bait's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: in your closet
Posts: 4,508
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by printmanjackson
please don't take this wrong because I'm just asking......

When you say it was talked about, who did you talk about this with? Did Comp Cams tell you this was the lifter to use? I say this quessing the cam was from CC. I can't image them telling you to use a lifter that was not tested.
i bought the cam from comp directly. and the couple times i have called them they really didnt know what was going on. im sure there are good people there...ive just never gotten one. and it was talked about by several people when this was done. i spent a lot of money building this motor i would not have put these in if i had thought they werent going to work.
Old 01-14-2010, 12:27 AM
  #77  
TECH Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
printmanjackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I understand but I'm just really suprised they didn't give you advise to use their own lifters.

I wonder if anyone on this site using LS7 lifters was advised to do so from the cam manufactor. It just doesn't make since for them to advise someone to use an OEM product with an aftermarket product especially when they offer a lifter.

I'm sure your problem will be solved now.
Old 01-14-2010, 11:13 AM
  #78  
Banned
iTrader: (115)
 
99blancoSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ST Helens, OR
Posts: 9,892
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

No knock on Comp here at all but they are big company. Not everyone who gets on the phone knows what they are talking about, especially if your just talking to a sales rep.
Old 01-14-2010, 10:34 PM
  #79  
9 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
ls2 bait's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: in your closet
Posts: 4,508
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by printmanjackson
I understand but I'm just really suprised they didn't give you advise to use their own lifters.

I wonder if anyone on this site using LS7 lifters was advised to do so from the cam manufactor. It just doesn't make since for them to advise someone to use an OEM product with an aftermarket product especially when they offer a lifter.

I'm sure your problem will be solved now.
comp didnt recommend them, i didnt ask. and if i had i wouldnt have taken there advice because the people i have talked to knew less then me. and this is my hobby not my profession so that scared me. i asked the people who do this for a living everyday and know what they are talking about. like 99blancoss said you usually get a sales rep...and there job is to sell.
Old 01-18-2010, 09:15 PM
  #80  
9 Second Club
iTrader: (23)
 
JFM-jr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mastic Long Island N.Y.
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

I went with Morels on my LS2 as well. Set the preload at .040 as recomended by Chris Straub. I also went with a set of Manton 11/32 pushrods dont forget about the benefit of a quality pushrod working with those lifters.


Quick Reply: gm fails again.......lifter



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 AM.