For those of you that have had spring failure. . .
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,386
Likes: 39
From: Tri-Cities, TN
For those of you that have had spring failure. . . can you tell me if you had the stock OEM style locks on your cylinder heads, this would include the ones that are just black oxided, or did you have an aftermarket machined steel lock.
Your input will benefit all LS1/LS6 engines for future builds.
Chris Straub
Stef's Performance and B&B Performance Products
Your input will benefit all LS1/LS6 engines for future builds.
Chris Straub
Stef's Performance and B&B Performance Products
Hmmm,Guess the lock is moving around Chris 
Its sad that these big time companies are draging there feel R&Ding LS1 engines.
There so amazing,cant they see theres a big market in providing quality aftermarket parts such as blocks,heads,intakes,springs etc.
I applaud u for looking into making a better lock and or spring setup.
Keep us abreast of your work...
By the way,We sell and use your products
Your LT1 Valve Covers are beautiful...
Its sad that these big time companies are draging there feel R&Ding LS1 engines.
There so amazing,cant they see theres a big market in providing quality aftermarket parts such as blocks,heads,intakes,springs etc.
I applaud u for looking into making a better lock and or spring setup.
Keep us abreast of your work...
By the way,We sell and use your products
Your LT1 Valve Covers are beautiful...
Last edited by JS; Jan 13, 2004 at 09:15 AM.
TECH Resident
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 791
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From: Tulsa, Ok
i broke a spring. with only 4k miles on them and running .050" under their rated lift. was using the stock locks. are you saying that the stock locks might be a cause for spring failure? if so how. i just want to learn from those that know more than me 
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,386
Likes: 39
From: Tri-Cities, TN
These LS1/LS6 engines are "wasting" to many valve springs compared to the 5.0 hyd roller stuff that is about 2 times heavier and no problems to really speak of. Before I say anything I need to gather some more data but I know we are on the right track.
Chris
Thanks for the compliements, we try.
Chris
Thanks for the compliements, we try.
Im curious with which spring tool was used. The claw tool looks like they put more stress on the spring than the tool that compresses from the top like it supposed to. Also another factor to look at is how much the spring was compressed during installation. Squashing the spring down to coilbind cant be good for them but makes the install quicker and easier.
Seriously, the install has to be the toughest on springs. Being squashed down while cold. I bet some springs are doomd after the install.
Seriously, the install has to be the toughest on springs. Being squashed down while cold. I bet some springs are doomd after the install.
Well, I broke an ISKY spring (not sure which one) running a tr224 after about 14k miles. The springs were reportedly good for .600 lift and I'm only at ~.555.
Yes, I had stock locks as well.
Right now I switched to the 'new' blue stripe 918s with titanium retainers and stock locks. Please let us know if you come up with anything new.
Hope this helps
Yes, I had stock locks as well.
Right now I switched to the 'new' blue stripe 918s with titanium retainers and stock locks. Please let us know if you come up with anything new.
Hope this helps
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6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Texas
Originally Posted by dug
Im curious with which spring tool was used. The claw tool looks like they put more stress on the spring than the tool that compresses from the top like it supposed to. Also another factor to look at is how much the spring was compressed during installation. Squashing the spring down to coilbind cant be good for them but makes the install quicker and easier.
Seriously, the install has to be the toughest on springs. Being squashed down while cold. I bet some springs are doomd after the install.
Seriously, the install has to be the toughest on springs. Being squashed down while cold. I bet some springs are doomd after the install.
But I am curious what Chris has come across.
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I went with Crane dual stock-diameter springs, had them rate checked at 1.800" and 1.237" heights (installed height measurements done w/ a micrometer). They were all well within tolerance (Crane specifies +/- 10 lb pressure variation, mine were +/-3 of mean at 1.800 and +/- 7 at 1.237").
I used Manley machined locks and the spiffy MORE spring compressor that looks like a rocker arm.
Haven't turned the key yet, but if I break a fricking spring I'll be really shocked. I'm not lifting anywhere near the springs' limit, I mic'd all 16 installed heights prior to installation, and I'll be breaking them in as specified.
-Kevin
I used Manley machined locks and the spiffy MORE spring compressor that looks like a rocker arm.
Haven't turned the key yet, but if I break a fricking spring I'll be really shocked. I'm not lifting anywhere near the springs' limit, I mic'd all 16 installed heights prior to installation, and I'll be breaking them in as specified.
-Kevin
TECH Resident
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 848
Likes: 1
From: Working in the shop 24/7
Originally Posted by Cstraub
These LS1/LS6 engines are "wasting" to many valve springs compared to the 5.0 hyd roller stuff that is about 2 times heavier and no problems to really speak of. Before I say anything I need to gather some more data but I know we are on the right track.
Chris
Thanks for the compliements, we try.
Chris
Thanks for the compliements, we try.
Keep in mind Chris, I've spent a lot of time and money getting the Fords to do this. Others have tried and failed but we all know who's got it proven out...
As for the LS stuff, there are a few new things getting done and so far it's all looking good (right Chris!
) but it's still a virgin market... That will change very soon..Ed
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,386
Likes: 39
From: Tri-Cities, TN
Ed,
We'll you know as well as anyone how heavy the valvetrain is on the HO engines and they don't have near the spring failure these LS1's have. That's why I asked you to put a timing light on a running car with an open valve cover with anybodys springs, its damn scarey. We will have some more input next week and then we'll know for sure what we suspect is the culprit.
Chris
Stef's Performance
We'll you know as well as anyone how heavy the valvetrain is on the HO engines and they don't have near the spring failure these LS1's have. That's why I asked you to put a timing light on a running car with an open valve cover with anybodys springs, its damn scarey. We will have some more input next week and then we'll know for sure what we suspect is the culprit.
Chris
Stef's Performance
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
From: Fair Oaks, CA
Originally Posted by EDC
Keep in mind Chris, I've spent a lot of time and money getting the Fords to do this. Others have tried and failed but we all know who's got it proven out...
As for the LS stuff, there are a few new things getting done and so far it's all looking good (right Chris!
) but it's still a virgin market... That will change very soon..Ed
Can't wait to see these new LS1 springs in action.
BTW, I think purple is really your color Ed.
TECH Resident
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 848
Likes: 1
From: Working in the shop 24/7
Originally Posted by 93PONY
BTW, I think purple is really your color Ed.
Blame PS John...
He said my blue lettering couldn't be seen with his blue background...
(That's why this one is in blue....)
Ed
Is there a difference between LT1 and LS1 locks? I just replaced springs on both using stock locks and they looked identical. Never heard of LT1's busting springs. BTW, I'll be watching this thread with interest, keep up the good work!
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,386
Likes: 39
From: Tri-Cities, TN
LT1's have the old squared tang. And yes your correct they did not have spring problems. this is also the same style tang that Ford 5.0's have. Can not say what we have found at this point. . .waiting on some more testing the I will "call the ball".
Chris
Stef's Performance
Chris
Stef's Performance
Originally Posted by Cstraub
LT1's have the old squared tang. And yes your correct they did not have spring problems. this is also the same style tang that Ford 5.0's have. Can not say what we have found at this point. . .waiting on some more testing the I will "call the ball".
Chris
Stef's Performance
Chris
Stef's Performance
Any chance there will be something in the next couple of weeks that will help me make a decision on which springs to get? I need to make a choice soon, but if you say it will be worth my wait, I'll wait.
By the way, I was thinking Crane duals for stock pockets w/titainium retainers and hardened seats.
Thanks!
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,386
Likes: 39
From: Tri-Cities, TN
If our results are what we expect, the no valvespring has a chance to live in this engine due to another part. So springs are getting the blame but they are breaking due to a "tolerance issue". So your spring purchase is no problem. Thats all I would buy at this time.
Originally Posted by Cstraub
If our results are what we expect, the no valvespring has a chance to live in this engine due to another part. So springs are getting the blame but they are breaking due to a "tolerance issue". So your spring purchase is no problem. Thats all I would buy at this time.
Much appreciated.
Brien
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 6
From: RainbowCity,Alabama
Patriot Heads I also think that the stock valve lock is a week point.After looking at the movement of the stock valve lock,I have decided to use the new super 7 valve lock. 
I am looking forward to the arrival of the shipment of locks from Chris.Patriot has a titanium retainer for use with the super 7 valve lock for the 8mm LS1/LS6 valves.This lock will be used as standard equipment on all of Patriot heads. 
It will also be available in the Patriot Gold dual valve spring kit.Good bye to the factory locks. 
I am looking forward to the arrival of the shipment of locks from Chris.Patriot has a titanium retainer for use with the super 7 valve lock for the 8mm LS1/LS6 valves.This lock will be used as standard equipment on all of Patriot heads. It will also be available in the Patriot Gold dual valve spring kit.Good bye to the factory locks. Last edited by TVWilkes; Jan 15, 2004 at 06:16 PM.