I found the problem the misfire!
Launching!
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 274
Likes: 1
I pulled the drivers side valve covers and I found THIS!....
These are Trickflows "Upgraded Spring" good for a .670 lift and Im only running a VRX5 cam (236/238 .601/.605 113 LSA) that I bought as a package in February of 2009 from Vengeance. In March of 2009 StraightLine installed it and I ran with it all last summer (only on the nice weekends) and for a few times this year. All in all I have about 5-6k miles! My supporting mods are in my SIG. I guess Im a little disappointed but......
How does this happen?
Will Trickflow honor it and send me new springs?
Should I pull the heads?
What are the chances of me having other weak springs?
Sorry for the questions, I would appreciate any help here thanks!
These are Trickflows "Upgraded Spring" good for a .670 lift and Im only running a VRX5 cam (236/238 .601/.605 113 LSA) that I bought as a package in February of 2009 from Vengeance. In March of 2009 StraightLine installed it and I ran with it all last summer (only on the nice weekends) and for a few times this year. All in all I have about 5-6k miles! My supporting mods are in my SIG. I guess Im a little disappointed but......
How does this happen?
Will Trickflow honor it and send me new springs?
Should I pull the heads?
What are the chances of me having other weak springs?
Sorry for the questions, I would appreciate any help here thanks!
How did that happen?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,561
Likes: 4
From: Burbank, Illinois
**** just driving home from Modern muscle's open house! That's the F$&@Ed up part! Just driving, as I was coming up the gears it started missing around the 3500 rpm range then it would stop. The next day I started it no problem at idle cause of the dual springs but then at a light it would start missing around the 2k range. Then I would check the wires, I changed the plugs x4's, the o2's X's, a coil, a cam sensor, a crank sensor cause I thought it was electrical. Then I opened up the valve covers and bam! Broken spring. So since I didn't have air escaping at 50psi while I changed the spring that TEA sent me, and no air was leaking from the tailpipe or intake I thought I was home free. So after I heat cycled the springs I went for a ride and sure as **** I was still leaking and the o2 on bank 1 was lean as hell I knew the valve had kissed that damn piston. It's been a month of damn agony trying to isolate the problem. Never did I thought it be my springs! So I'm gonna call Mike who seems really cool and see what he says.
Just b/c you bought the heads "assembled" from whoever, doesnt necessarily mean the guy there knew what he was doing.
Whenever buying heads assembled, they should ALWAYS be taken apart and checked by someone who knows what they are doing to make sure the springs were setup CORRECTLY before installed...IMO.
Good luck
Just my .02
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,561
Likes: 4
From: Burbank, Illinois
I am gonna agree with you too Lil Jay.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,561
Likes: 4
From: Burbank, Illinois
called Mike at TEA and he said to ship him the head and he will get me up and running!
Talk about customer service!
Thanks Mike I'll send the head and spring first thing monday morning.
Talk about customer service!
Thanks Mike I'll send the head and spring first thing monday morning.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,561
Likes: 4
From: Burbank, Illinois
Well I got the head from TEA and I installed it, and as my luck would have it It still drives like its on a miss!!!!! I believe its a spring thats broke AGAIN or TEA just swapped out the valve and didnt check the valve guides or I have another bent valve somewhere! this **** is getting out of control already! All of this after after a god damn spring breaks! And what they call a "FLUKE"! I paid 1800 dollars for a set of NEW TF heads with their "upgraded spring" and breaks after a summer of WEEKEND only driving! I havent even been to the track with it! I only drive from carshow to carshow on the weekends and the guys in the midwest section will tell you I TAKE CARE OF MY ****! I am so frustrated right now! you want to add a little power to your ride, you go out and get the best parts, from the best company and use their tried and true set ups and BREAK after 5k miles of driving? Now I have a piston with a notch in it, a car that I have spent over 600.oo dollars just trying to diagnose and fix problems. Its summer here and I cant even use my car!
Thanks Trickflow!!!
Thanks Trickflow!!!
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 845
Likes: 0
From: K-W, Ontario
At this point I have to ask whether clearances were checked before
installing the head?
Aside from that, who spec'd the valve train (pushrods, rocker arms, etc.)?
Are you sure there is enough bind clearance?
How much PTV clearance?
What is the bind clearance and how much pre-load are you setting?
Seems to me this isn't TEA's deal any more...since the valve train is still
breaking according to you?
installing the head?
Aside from that, who spec'd the valve train (pushrods, rocker arms, etc.)?
Are you sure there is enough bind clearance?
How much PTV clearance?
What is the bind clearance and how much pre-load are you setting?
Seems to me this isn't TEA's deal any more...since the valve train is still
breaking according to you?
First thing I would do is run a compression test, that way you can pinpoint what cylinder is doing what. You'll also rule out electrical misses, too.
Even the best products in the world still have a failure rate. Good luck with it.
Even the best products in the world still have a failure rate. Good luck with it.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,561
Likes: 4
From: Burbank, Illinois
At this point I have to ask whether clearances were checked before
installing the head?
Aside from that, who spec'd the valve train (pushrods, rocker arms, etc.)?
Are you sure there is enough bind clearance?
How much PTV clearance?
What is the bind clearance and how much pre-load are you setting?
Dont know about the binding clearance.
Seems to me this isn't TEA's deal any more...since the valve train is still
breaking according to you?
installing the head?
Aside from that, who spec'd the valve train (pushrods, rocker arms, etc.)?
Are you sure there is enough bind clearance?
How much PTV clearance?
What is the bind clearance and how much pre-load are you setting?
Dont know about the binding clearance.
Seems to me this isn't TEA's deal any more...since the valve train is still
breaking according to you?
2. Ron at vengeance, I told him I had H.S. 1.7's non-adjustables and he said TEA sends their heads with the upgraded springs and he said I would need longer Pr's and I ordered it all thru Vengeance.
3. Head came assembled from TEA, plug and play according to Ron. Then I called TF themselves and I talked to a tech there just to double check, I told him I was gonna be running the VRX5 cam (236/238 .601/.605 113 lsa) and MLS gaskets with the heads milled to 60cc's. Guy got on his program in his computer and said I will be fine and not close or pushing the limits which I didnt want in the first place.
4. Dont know, Ron said they have run this combo many times and I shouldn't have any problems. I had mentioned I was gonna use GM MLS gaskets.
5. According to me I asked the questions about the set up I wanted and I got the answers and I loved the results. All the problems happened this summer after 5k miles when the "According" to them was a "fluke" and a spring broke. This may not even be a TEA deal but a TF deal like I mentioned earlier. I will be doing a leak down soon to see what other issue im gonna be having with these heads.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,561
Likes: 4
From: Burbank, Illinois
Thanks Turbosix! Im gonna need it.
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 845
Likes: 0
From: K-W, Ontario
Good advice on the comp/leak down test; that will certainly indicate whether
the valve is sealing properly. Chances are the stem is bent and you're not
getting full contact on the seat.
With 0.605" valve lift, you will need the following to ensure the spring isn't
binding. This quick math is done at 1.800" install height:
Pre-load ~ 0.040" (estimated)
Shim ~ 0.010" (estimated)
Bind height using the above estimates: 1.145"
If you have a thicker shim, or more than 0.040" pre-load you are cutting
into the clearance.
Visually, 0.020" is about 1/3 of a spark plug gap...so it's critical to set
the valve pre-load carefully. An extra 1/4 turn could mean the difference
in some cases.
Too much preload is your enemy. If the valve happened to float, and the
lifter pumped up more than 0.040", you've just killed a spring in the above example.
the valve is sealing properly. Chances are the stem is bent and you're not
getting full contact on the seat.
With 0.605" valve lift, you will need the following to ensure the spring isn't
binding. This quick math is done at 1.800" install height:
Pre-load ~ 0.040" (estimated)
Shim ~ 0.010" (estimated)
Bind height using the above estimates: 1.145"
If you have a thicker shim, or more than 0.040" pre-load you are cutting
into the clearance.
Visually, 0.020" is about 1/3 of a spark plug gap...so it's critical to set
the valve pre-load carefully. An extra 1/4 turn could mean the difference
in some cases.
Too much preload is your enemy. If the valve happened to float, and the
lifter pumped up more than 0.040", you've just killed a spring in the above example.
Last edited by Adrenaline_Z; Jul 5, 2010 at 11:31 PM. Reason: Clarify the math
any updates? I ask because I just went through the same thing you did... had a miss, replaced coils, o2's, checked for vacuum leaks, spark plugs, wires, etc.etc. finally popped the valvecovers off and found the #2 exhaust spring is toast. VRX5 and TFS 215's with the same springs, so anything you come up with would be great. I've been concerned that I might have a piston to valve issue as well but I won't know until I get there... compression test tomorrow I suppose.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,561
Likes: 4
From: Burbank, Illinois
Yup Mike at TEA has been really cool and I also saw Chris from Trickflow this weekend at the Nmca vs nmra at Rt66 and they said they'd take care of getting fixing my heads personally! Cause I sent both heads to them on Friday, no way should a spring break in less than 5k miles! If that's the case then they should state to change springs every 4k miles!
