You guys oil your head bolts on an LS1?
08-11-2010, 02:49 PM
#21
Where do you come up with this? ARP bolts break also. All my stuff has stock bolts... making well over 800hp on them. My friends Turbo car we even reused the stock takeout ones 
... its making close to 600. Overkilling stuff is kind of a waste... like putting a parachute on my stock tahoe . You also dont need any other bolts just because you spray... There is no logic in this thread.... sounds like a bunch of hear-say and spend a lot so you have a peice of mind.
Dont over tighten the stock ones and they wont break.
I love doing things with stock parts that a lot of people cant do with performance ones.....lol.
... its making close to 600. Overkilling stuff is kind of a waste... like putting a parachute on my stock tahoe . You also dont need any other bolts just because you spray... There is no logic in this thread.... sounds like a bunch of hear-say and spend a lot so you have a peice of mind. Dont over tighten the stock ones and they wont break.
I love doing things with stock parts that a lot of people cant do with performance ones.....lol.
Spend some more money on a power plant that in most people cost is in the thousands is a SOUND investment.
As for not having a TQ angle finder, another good reason on not having to use TTY.
IF you ever see a video of the guys who build motors, for GM at least they use a HUGE gang driver which hits ALL the head bolts same time, and since the bolt stretch, you can never mess them up.
Works fine for factory stock, and IF I was rebuilding a stock motor and had the tools thats one thing but everyone worth their salt have at least a TQ wrench and can follow a 3 step Sequence Process to hit 25-50-75 ft lbs and be done with it.
08-11-2010, 04:32 PM
#23
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I just had the head of a ARP headbolt strip when I was removing them. All the rest came out fine execpt one. They were installed with the ARP lube and torqued to spec.
Needless to say the motor is going to get studs before it goes back in
Needless to say the motor is going to get studs before it goes back in
08-11-2010, 05:40 PM
#24
ARP recommends on their studs to only use the assembly lubricant and basically say if you use something else your torque specs will be off. The stock fasteners don't need the lubricant as it is already on the threads. Install dry and torque the TFS heads the same as you would a stock head.
There is a reason to use better bolts in a nitrous application and it is called cylinder pressure.
Where do you come up with this? ARP bolts break also. All my stuff has stock bolts... making well over 800hp on them. My friends Turbo car we even reused the stock takeout ones ... its making close to 600. Overkilling stuff is kind of a waste... like putting a parachute on my stock tahoe . You also dont need any other bolts just because you spray... There is no logic in this thread.... sounds like a bunch of hear-say and spend a lot so you have a peice of mind.
Dont over tighten the stock ones and they wont break.
I love doing things with stock parts that a lot of people cant do with performance ones.....lol.
... its making close to 600. Overkilling stuff is kind of a waste... like putting a parachute on my stock tahoe . You also dont need any other bolts just because you spray... There is no logic in this thread.... sounds like a bunch of hear-say and spend a lot so you have a peice of mind. Dont over tighten the stock ones and they wont break.
I love doing things with stock parts that a lot of people cant do with performance ones.....lol.
08-12-2010, 06:12 AM
#27
Right......if your actually making some. Just the use of nitrous doesnt require better bolts.... perhaps if your making a total of 800+hp maybe then.
Nitrous, turbo, they all make cylinder pressure..... I havnt had a head related problem yet. I had nitrous on my turbo 5.3 on stock bolts. ??
Last edited by pwrtrip75; 08-12-2010 at 12:31 PM.
08-12-2010, 02:41 PM
#29
Using Stock TTY bolts on a set up like your friend's car is kinda Hack. Sorry, thems the facts.
Spend some more money on a power plant that in most people cost is in the thousands is a SOUND investment.
As for not having a TQ angle finder, another good reason on not having to use TTY.
IF you ever see a video of the guys who build motors, for GM at least they use a HUGE gang driver which hits ALL the head bolts same time, and since the bolt stretch, you can never mess them up.
Works fine for factory stock, and IF I was rebuilding a stock motor and had the tools thats one thing but everyone worth their salt have at least a TQ wrench and can follow a 3 step Sequence Process to hit 25-50-75 ft lbs and be done with it.
Spend some more money on a power plant that in most people cost is in the thousands is a SOUND investment.
As for not having a TQ angle finder, another good reason on not having to use TTY.
IF you ever see a video of the guys who build motors, for GM at least they use a HUGE gang driver which hits ALL the head bolts same time, and since the bolt stretch, you can never mess them up.
Works fine for factory stock, and IF I was rebuilding a stock motor and had the tools thats one thing but everyone worth their salt have at least a TQ wrench and can follow a 3 step Sequence Process to hit 25-50-75 ft lbs and be done with it.
Yep its a lot easier to turn that torque wrench til it clicks vs angle torquing bolts inside the tight confines of an Fbody IMO. I just went with the ARPs & I will sell the GM bolts.
08-12-2010, 08:13 PM
#32
Well on SBC if you get head bolts sometimes you will see a white paste in the threads. That is on there because if you have ever chased the threads of a SBC you'll know that they don't bottom out, they go into the water passages.
I don't work on any of the Gen 3-4 engines so I can't say for sure if their bolt holes bottom out or go to the water jacket.
On my LT1 engine I have used the thread sealant as well. I haven't ever see coolant leak up past the threads so maybe it isn't necessary.
As for tightening head studs, using the angle method is how many large diesel engines are done, with clean threads and bolts/studs it is very accurate and doesn't even require a torque wrench. Using a hydraulic bolt tensioner is the coolest way to do it. It is similar to the GM engine factory that tightens all the bolts at one time.
I am kind of skeptical about the person saying a light coating of motor oil caused his bolts to break off in the block, did you get to see what torque he put on it? Does the guy take car of his torque wrenches, did he use the proper order in tightening? I've torqued the foundation bolts on a 16,000HP Diesel engine and they did it in the wrong order so that even though they were all installed at 850 Bar (12,300 PSI) some of the adjacent studs were installed at over 1100 Bar (16,700 PSI).
I don't work on any of the Gen 3-4 engines so I can't say for sure if their bolt holes bottom out or go to the water jacket.
On my LT1 engine I have used the thread sealant as well. I haven't ever see coolant leak up past the threads so maybe it isn't necessary.
As for tightening head studs, using the angle method is how many large diesel engines are done, with clean threads and bolts/studs it is very accurate and doesn't even require a torque wrench. Using a hydraulic bolt tensioner is the coolest way to do it. It is similar to the GM engine factory that tightens all the bolts at one time.
I am kind of skeptical about the person saying a light coating of motor oil caused his bolts to break off in the block, did you get to see what torque he put on it? Does the guy take car of his torque wrenches, did he use the proper order in tightening? I've torqued the foundation bolts on a 16,000HP Diesel engine and they did it in the wrong order so that even though they were all installed at 850 Bar (12,300 PSI) some of the adjacent studs were installed at over 1100 Bar (16,700 PSI).
08-12-2010, 08:52 PM
#33
I think it might be some kind of locktite to keep the bolts from backing out.
Thats correct.
On an LS1 the head bolts dont go into the water jacket.
I don't work on any of the Gen 3-4 engines so I can't say for sure if their bolt holes bottom out or go to the water jacket.
08-13-2010, 12:04 AM
#34
Right......if your actually making some. Just the use of nitrous doesnt require better bolts.... perhaps if your making a total of 800+hp maybe then.
Nitrous, turbo, they all make cylinder pressure..... I havnt had a head related problem yet. I had nitrous on my turbo 5.3 on stock bolts. ??
Nitrous, turbo, they all make cylinder pressure..... I havnt had a head related problem yet. I had nitrous on my turbo 5.3 on stock bolts. ??
08-13-2010, 04:46 PM
#35
There's a few different ways to 800hp. If you have a 347 making 450 and are spraying 350 on it good luck with GM bolts. If you have a 500ci engine making 700 and are spraying 100 I bet you could get away with stock bolts, but why bother. I bought a BNIB of head studs from the parts for sale section for $180ish.
08-15-2010, 01:50 AM
#36
Well Reher-Morrison uses Moly Lube on head bolts. It is a Dart Little M block though.
TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
Cam Bolts For belt drive 25Ft.Lbs. w/Loctite (1). Center bolt left hand thread 70Ft.Lbs. w/Loctite (1)
Rod Bolts ARP2000 65Ft.Lbs. w/Oil (3)
Main Bolts 70Ft.Lbs. w/Oil (3). Rear cap 100Ft.Lbs. w/Oil (3)
Head Studs Long 7/16” studs 70Ft.Lbs. /Short 7/16” 65Ft.Lbs. /Long 3/8” 65Ft.Lbs. w/Moly Lube (2)
Oil Pump Bolts 55Ft.Lbs. w/Loctite (1)
Rocker Stand Bolts 60Ft.Lbs. w/Liquid Tef on Sealant (4)
Rocker Shaft Bolts 25Ft.Lbs. w/Oil (3)
NOTES
(1) Loctite Threadlocker #271 (Red).
(2) Moly Assembly Lube (MoS2
molybdenum disulf de). Available from our Parts Department in 2oz. Pkgs. (P/N 99002-1)
(3) Recommend using Non-Synthetic 50W Motor Oil for best torque results.
(4) PST Pipe Sealant w/PTFE is available from our Parts Department in 50ml. tubes. (P/N 592)
http://www.rehermorrison.com/PdfFiles/15Deg427.pdf
TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
Cam Bolts For belt drive 25Ft.Lbs. w/Loctite (1). Center bolt left hand thread 70Ft.Lbs. w/Loctite (1)
Rod Bolts ARP2000 65Ft.Lbs. w/Oil (3)
Main Bolts 70Ft.Lbs. w/Oil (3). Rear cap 100Ft.Lbs. w/Oil (3)
Head Studs Long 7/16” studs 70Ft.Lbs. /Short 7/16” 65Ft.Lbs. /Long 3/8” 65Ft.Lbs. w/Moly Lube (2)
Oil Pump Bolts 55Ft.Lbs. w/Loctite (1)
Rocker Stand Bolts 60Ft.Lbs. w/Liquid Tef on Sealant (4)
Rocker Shaft Bolts 25Ft.Lbs. w/Oil (3)
NOTES
(1) Loctite Threadlocker #271 (Red).
(2) Moly Assembly Lube (MoS2
molybdenum disulf de). Available from our Parts Department in 2oz. Pkgs. (P/N 99002-1)
(3) Recommend using Non-Synthetic 50W Motor Oil for best torque results.
(4) PST Pipe Sealant w/PTFE is available from our Parts Department in 50ml. tubes. (P/N 592)
http://www.rehermorrison.com/PdfFiles/15Deg427.pdf
08-15-2010, 11:02 AM
#38
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Cylinder pressure is cylinder pressure, the force applied to a piston/cylinder walls.... Makes no difference if you have a 100hp engine spraying 500, or a 500hp engine spraying 100. The amount of force being applied equates out to the same in order to achieve the final output numbers.
08-15-2010, 05:00 PM
#39
lol kinda off here but right at the same time they both should have the same psi in cylinder but the 100hp engine with the huge shot will have way more cylinder psi then the other there will be a huge psi spike vs the the other one being spread out over a longer time peak vs avg pressure
08-16-2010, 06:35 PM
#40
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Hello guys , eric here , while you guys are on the subject of bolts , i know i cant reuse the factory head bolts and why would i for 42 dollars i can get a new set , my question is concerning the main cap bolts , can i reuse them , i have alot of documentation about these engines but i cant seem to find out if i can reuse the main cap bolts , are all six reuseable or not , or are they also cheap and not worth reusing , i have a used ls1 and i plan to rebuild it , ported heads , milled to 11 to 1 with an ASA cam , anybody thank you