problem with valve springs
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Teching In
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: chicagoland area
problem with valve springs ok
i have ls6 heads
a comp cam with a .625 life
i bought the patriot dual gold valve spring kit, and the inner valve springs are breaking..
any ideas of why this can be happening?
it says the springs are capable of a .650 lift
i have ls6 heads
a comp cam with a .625 life
i bought the patriot dual gold valve spring kit, and the inner valve springs are breaking..
any ideas of why this can be happening?
it says the springs are capable of a .650 lift
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Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Braselton,Ga
Does the heads have factory valves or are they after market,,,also are you using 1.7 rocker arms??
Lastly how old are the springs and how many RPMs are you turning the engine along with are you letting the engine get up to full temp before giving it hell??
Lastly how old are the springs and how many RPMs are you turning the engine along with are you letting the engine get up to full temp before giving it hell??
Did you install the seats and seals that came with the kit?? if not, the inner springs will coil-bind at about .550" valve lift, and that will be the culprit of the broken springs! The issue is the O.D. of the one piece seat/seal that GM installed on the heads is too large for that inner spring, and it will not sit down fully on the seat, causing coil-bind very early.
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Thread Starter
Teching In
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From: chicagoland area
yes i have the comp cam 1.72 rockers... and everything that came with the patriot kit was installed
im running factory valves in the ls6 heads
is it possible i gave the car to much hell right from the start?
im just gonna go with the comp cam dual valves
im running factory valves in the ls6 heads
is it possible i gave the car to much hell right from the start?
im just gonna go with the comp cam dual valves
How many broke? You could just throw a different kit on there, but it's always nice to know WHY something broke before you just replace it, IMO!
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From: Braselton,Ga
yes especially if they havn't went threw a few heat cycles also the 1.72 rockers push down on the springs more than 1.7 and you said your cam has a lift of 625 so you are at the max of the spring binding point with 1.72 rockers.
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Thread Starter
Teching In
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From: chicagoland area
at least 3-5 broke, im gunna try and take it easy for a lil while before i get on the car, im thinking my dumbass shoulda took it easy for a while
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Taking it easy on them is not the answer. There is something wrong with the setup. The "lift" is only guidance at a specified installed height and in reality is meaningless. You need to find installed height, total lift, coil bind, etc. and determine how much clearance you have to bind, to the seal, etc.
What is your installed height?
If you didn't measure, you need to otherwise you are guessing and needlessly throwing money away.
What is your installed height?
If you didn't measure, you need to otherwise you are guessing and needlessly throwing money away.
Taking it easy on them is not the answer. There is something wrong with the setup. The "lift" is only guidance at a specified installed height and in reality is meaningless. You need to find installed height, total lift, coil bind, etc. and determine how much clearance you have to bind, to the seal, etc.
What is your installed height?
If you didn't measure, you need to otherwise you are guessing and needlessly throwing money away.
What is your installed height?
If you didn't measure, you need to otherwise you are guessing and needlessly throwing money away.
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Thread Starter
Teching In
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From: chicagoland area
Actually, no. Even if the .625" lift was with a 1.7 rocker ratio, with the 1.72 rockers it is only .632" of valve lift.
THIS!!! There was another thread very recently where a guy checked the installed heights with that spring kit and they were quite a way off from the "norm" or assumed height! If he would have installed them blindly, he would have had similar issues!
THIS!!! There was another thread very recently where a guy checked the installed heights with that spring kit and they were quite a way off from the "norm" or assumed height! If he would have installed them blindly, he would have had similar issues!
so my setup now will be
ls6 heads
comp cam pushrods (stock length)
comp cam 1.72 rocker arms gold
comp cam dual valve springs they were like 380 at ws6store..
with the comp cam.. Int. 243 Ext. 251 Lift Int. .624 Exh. .624 LSA 114° cam specs.
thanks god i check it out before i had the car dyno'd it was suppose to go today..
i mean i kno the cam is big, i just hope if i heat cycle everything right,
this will all work out for me.
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From: Braselton,Ga
Matt@Texas-Speed<<<< i'm not doubting your expertise ,but he is using the heavier 1.72 rocker arms along with revving the hell out of the engine wile it is still cold and as you know the valves are probly floating wile he is revving the hell out of the engine you just did a post on that issue,,,,so thats whay I said what I said ,because even though it may be 635 lift total ,but after the valves start floating who knows how much lift the springs are actually seeing and the springs are still cold on top of that.
I knew this idiot that was trying to show out to his nieghbor and started up his car cold and was revving the hell out of it and he broke two springs,,after he fixed the two springs and let the car get up to temp he hasn't broken a spring agian,,,and he's one of those guys thats revvs like crazy at any other fast car that he see's and to just show out.
I knew this idiot that was trying to show out to his nieghbor and started up his car cold and was revving the hell out of it and he broke two springs,,after he fixed the two springs and let the car get up to temp he hasn't broken a spring agian,,,and he's one of those guys thats revvs like crazy at any other fast car that he see's and to just show out.
The LS6 heads had light weight sodium filled intake valves....even with a relatively heavy rocker and alot of RPM he should not have broken 3 inner springs just because he didn't let it warm up! I'm not a fan of that spring kit, but something else is wrong on this one.
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Only the vette heads had the sodium valves. He didn't actually specify thats what he had. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the non-sodium 243s or 799s.
Last edited by 01ssreda4; Sep 29, 2010 at 02:44 PM.
True, and thanks for the correction. BUT, I would still bet against the not heating up first being the issue with a standard GM 2.00"/1.55" valve!
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One more time. If you blindly install valve spring without measuring you will be back asking why they are breaking again. I have not yet assembled a set of heads with stock parts that come out at 1.800", they are less and if you don't have the final height you are asking for problems.
I'd also lean toward it being caused by something in the combo not running the springs cold. Granted thats not really a good idea but I have done it a time or two & my Patriot Golds are just fine 50k miles later.
I think its something in the combo most likely related to the aftermarket rocker ratio, pushrod length & lifter preload. But thats just my opinion. Honestly I refuse to run anything except a 1.7 rocker on these engines. If you want more lift go with a cam thats already got it & stick with the stock ratio rocker. Again, just my .02
I think its something in the combo most likely related to the aftermarket rocker ratio, pushrod length & lifter preload. But thats just my opinion. Honestly I refuse to run anything except a 1.7 rocker on these engines. If you want more lift go with a cam thats already got it & stick with the stock ratio rocker. Again, just my .02
