2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

That's funny. You should not assume an installed height with any spring kit. Not even PRCs. Sounds like you are trying to single out Patriots with that statement.

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

Negative, we check EVERY spring kit we install, PRC or otherwise. But more DIY customers just throw them in than check unfortunately.... It's just a known issue with patriots, more-so than any other kit I've seen!

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

In the 2nd link you posted one person installed 5 sets of Patriots on 3 different style heads and said they all installed at 1.8" on every valve on every head. https://ls1tech.com/forums/13775751-post10.html My knock on PRC kits is the use of the stock keepers. I'm pretty sure at one time the springs were the same. They may be different now. Take a pair of stock keepers and wrap them around a stock valve and see how much they move up and down. That causes poor valve control when it comes back down on the seat. Then take a pair of the Super Seven keepers and do the same thing. Report back here what you find. I know you will say to just use a better set of stock style keepers to eliminate the movement but how many users of PRC springs reuse their stock keepers?

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

He said that right along with his advice of using a caliper to measure it. That's pretty out the window, in my opinion.

We, as well as many others, have run the stock locks in our racecars and well into the single-digit 1/4 ET range without any issues. How they feel when you touch them with your hand and how they perform are clearly two different things.

z99ls1

iTrader: (12)

Now idk wat to do again lol

z99ls1

iTrader: (12)

So i shuld check installed height or not?

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

To do it right, yes! With that low lift cam you're going to run, you'd likely be fine even when they are off by .050" or so, but the correct way to do it is to measure and shim accordingly.

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...lve-cover.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/975659-post22.html

z99ls1

iTrader: (12)

So im getting someone who bassicly is saying these springs suck. And another who says they are good and has a reason not to use stock locks. My main question now is. If I buy a valve spring height checker micrometer, what will I do if I measure and get a measurement way over 1.8 and what if I get a measurement way under 1.8? And since installed height is 1.8 and valve spring coil bind is at 1.090. With .050 seats. Would that mean i could have .660 lift in a cam before I reach coil bind?

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

You are way over analyzing a mere +-.050 difference in installed spring height if even that on a .560 lift cam. Just install them. Also realize that one person saying Patriots springs have problems sells a different brand of springs. I have installed them on over 25 cam installs and recomend them to everyone I know that run Comp XER lobe and higher lift cams. Most just install them and never check the installed height. How often do you ever hear of a Patriot spring failing? There are thousands of people that use them most never checking the installed height. If you are that worried about them then get the PRCs and use your crappy stock locks with them. There was a thread here in the last week or two about someone breaking a PRC spring. Get some PAC 1218 or 1518 springs and use your stock seats, retainers, and locks. Then they will install at the exact same height as the stock springs. I'm through.

z99ls1

iTrader: (12)

Ok thanks. Would you recomend that I go ahead and buy the spring height checking tool? You have convinced me that I am definately safe to use the kit, but just for my knoledge could you help me out with the question I asked before? If someone had 1.750 installed height would there be any way to fix that? Or say it was over like 1.850 would you shim the springs to fix that height?

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

Want the links to the broken PAC's, Comp's, etc? Every spring manufacturer has breakages for one reason or another.

z99ls1

iTrader: (12)

Well even if I had a 1.750 installed height and was .050 off either way with the patriots I would still have like .600 lift left. So at worst I would have .037 lift left between my cam lift and coil bind point. And they are dual springs so if it ever did break I would still be kinda safe.

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

If you consider .037" from coil-bind safe, then sure!

JS01

iTrader: (10)

That would be highly undesirable, you need at least .065"-.070".

z99ls1

iTrader: (12)

umm .050 is the worst I have seen anybody off with the patriots and the safe zone for the springs is more like .060. I was just using worst case sinario

z99ls1

iTrader: (12)

Not to mention they wur not using the best tools for the job to get thos numbers

z99ls1

iTrader: (12)

You get alot of sales using sarcasm? Let me ask. Have you ever measured a patriot gold spring yourself and got more than .040 off?

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

That wasn't sarcasm, you said it'd be .037" from coil-bind and said it was safe....IT'S NOT!

And yes, I've personally checked multiple sets that were more than .040" off from their advertised 1.800". We, quite a few years ago, sold more Patriot products than anybody else in the country. Then we saw the issues there were, which were not being corrected, so we went another route and have not looked back!

It sounds like you want to believe they are fine and will setup correctly, but you just don't believe it....otherwise you wouldn't have started this thread. You asked a valid question in your original post about install height, I answered and even provided links to other individuals and sponsors here who have experienced the same issues with the kit in question. What else can this forum as a whole do for you (no sarcasm, that's a genuine question)?

z99ls1

iTrader: (12)

?
So how often did u see them not at the right installed height? Im gonna guess less than 5 times? Maybe another question would be how many went through that wur fine?