gs462

iTrader: (4)

Being that you've done many is there anything needed that will sneak up and surprise us guys doing our first one?? ANYTHING sensors bolts anything you can think of??

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

So I'm looking at supercharging..

I looked at turbo as well but SC is cheaper and SHOULD get CLOSE to the power I want out of this thing.

I'm learning the hard way.. that when people say "oh yea power is easy to get out of LSx motors" they mean EASY not CHEAP.

An ATI procharger kit for this car from brutespeed runs close to $7600. That doesn't include installation, or the supporting parts I'll need to have (which.. aren't a big deal anyway cos I need them one way or the other..) to make it work.

With boost I'll be able to run a milder cam.. probably low 220s range, and keep the stock 317s with upgraded springs.

I dunno.. $7500 seems like a lot of money to make 400whp.

The numbers as I see them are this:

stock FWHP LQ4: 300
puts it down to 250 MAX at the wheels. That's 43WHP LESS than my LS1 even it's sad state makes right now.

ATI D1SC kit estimates 140WHP gain. Leaving the motor as is and dropping it in with only new gaskets therefore, for the $7500 investment, would give the car 390WHP.

Adding a cam will probably increase WHP from 250 to.. ~ 290. still 3whp shy of my LS1, but close.

with the s/c (all else held constant for simple math..) +140= 430whp.

That's not that impressive for almost $10,000 invested in an engine.. to only put down 430, even if it does run like stock in traffic.. it won't be hanging out with c6 vettes with that kind of power... especially not 08+ and ESPECIALLY not c5 z or c6 z cars.

if I can get the engine to 400whp on cam only (literally.. just a cam when I say cam only.. not ls1 tech's "cam only") then I'd have ~540whp which would be more what I would expect out of a $7500 investment.

I dunno.. seems weird to me.. people say power comes easily to these motors, yet whenever I try to talk details I get those "oooh you want THAT much..? well.. you can do it but it wo't be fun to drive on the street."

This morning I spent 45 MINUTES to move 8 MILES. I left my house at 6:15 and arrived at work at 8:10.. my commute is 31 miles. I can't have a car that can't handle the street. It needs to hold idle.. it needs to comfortably sit still, and it needs to be able to move forward slowly. I can't have a cam chopping my guts out, stalling out at redlights, or needing a 4-5k stall converter.

I need more like.. a 2500 stall converter on this car.

perhaps the fact that I want to DRIVE my car is the reason I'm having so much trouble with this build.

if it's inescapable that I must spend $7,500 on one small part of my build.. it will take me a year or more to save up just that part of the build.. so.. anyone hoping for a quick resolution to this thread.. will probably be disappointed there.

Redbull87

iTrader: (3)

Stock lq4 fwhp is more than that my friend.Only the iron head/block 99-00 lq4s were rated 300fwhp.The aluminum heads were 330fwhp and 360-370fwtq.

The only reasons for the lower fwhp numbers is due to compression ratio.Bump that up and do a mild cam heads intake exhaust and you will see 400rwhp and you wouldnt spend soo much money into it..or build it up in stages

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

GM's stock specs rate the 03 GMC 2500HD as having "300HP."

I have to take their word for it and assume the 03 2500HD would have ~250whp if it were dyno'd stock.

My Ls1 was dyno'd at 293WHP with just a tune and a lid, rated t 305FWHP, I'd say its probably more like 315-325 range, but I have proof in the dyno numbers that GM's numbers were on the low side in that case.

I'm frankly on the fence as to what to do. Its easy to set my goals on supercharging the LQ4 and build up that way, a lot of the parts are the same. (head gaskets, head studs instead of bolts.. but I may do that anyway to make changes in the future easier.)

Plan A for boost would be the D1SC-H procharger setup, new fuel pump, aster bracket, new injectors.. the whole deal runs about $7500 as a single chunk. There's no dividing it up. Add to that ~$400 for a 224ish cam, an Ls6 intake, new springs for the 317s, new rockers, pushrods..

At the end of the day I may have $10-12k in the top end of the motor, and about 500-525WHP.

I've already spent about $2k total on the project, so about $12-14k total on the engine itself, then of course the 80e swap, a rearend build, suspension work etc.

If I stay naturally aspirated, go with AFR's heads and a fast 102, I'm looking at about $5500 for the top end, plus springs pushrods rockers head gaskets, injector, fuel pump, TB.. I might have close to $7500 there in the top end, but it would be dividable into smaller chunks of change, vs stroking a $7,500 check and writing my name on it.

I'd have MAYBE 350-400WHP out of that, and it would be difficult to go any higher without compromising drivability.

A lot of cars now are coming out with 400, 430, 500HP stock. Audi's S and RS class, the Z06, Mercedes AMG cars, Lexus ISF cars.. you gotta be able to keep up.. and I don't know with only 350-400whp I'll be able to.

(I work in the richest part of the city. The sedan of choice for mid 30s soccer moms is the Porsche panamera. Bentleys and Ferraris are common around here as well.) Yesterday I was getting gas in front of a guy that was about my age in an audi S5.

so I'm between a rock and an expensive place. On one hand I won't reach my goals (and I suppose at this point I have to admit that 400whp is NOT really my goal.. but my foor.) but can afford it reasonably. on the other hand I can surpass my goal, but can't reasonably afford it within any length of time.

When a house is $20k.. and I'll have to save up $12k to drop $7500 on a supercharger.. its hard to pull that trigger ya know?

guess I have time to think about it either way. My savings just reached it's "floor." I'm at least 6 months out.. and I'm gonna have to spend about $1200 on new a/c when the weather starts to warm up soon. My compressor is SHOT.

NemeSS

iTrader: (127)

Now is a good time to move ur alternator to the top

NemeSS

iTrader: (127)

LS power can be had easy, and it is cheap relatively speaking.
Sounds to me like a remote turbo will suit u better.
U wanna keep up with them new cars, u gotta pay one way or another. No way around that

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

Remote would make too much spool lag. I need to have as much power as my tires can stand on the low end for street driving.

Turbo setup is as expensive, or more, than the supercharger setup anyway. Modoular's TT kit runs $10k.. and that doesn't include your fuel system upgrade.

Redbull87

iTrader: (3)

bottom dollar cheapest way if you want to keep up/blow by those cars is do a decent 400+rwhp motor build and n2o the rest.thats as penny pinching as it gets with streetability.otherwise..just like the lottery..you gotta pay to play.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

Its frustrating.. I can buy a 6.2L "vmax" pullout for like $5k.. its already got 400hp. Can't seem to get this LQ4 there for less than $10k on top of all the other mess I've already spent on it.

tired of being broke and slow.. This morning I was late because I got beat off the line by a toyota tundra that cut me off, then poked along 40mph in a zone where everyone else goes 60. Since I was the car right behind his worthless *** I was trapped for more than 12 miles. I understand when this happens in my pickup... not acceptable when it happens in the camaro.

Redbull87

iTrader: (3)

Ill hit 400rwhp on my lq4 for less than 10k...for sure lol and a good tune and no driveability issues.Many guys have done so without breaking the bank.I think your way over thinking things and under estimating what the motor will put out once its its woken up.Something tells me no matter what you decide..it wont be either good enough or spending way too much for an easily obtainable goal.

gs462

iTrader: (4)

Im with you i will have less than 5K in mine and it better make 450 RWHP.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

Well if yall figure it out before me, let me know what you went with, cos I just don't see it happening.

I don't guess its set in stone.. I mean if I get a setup and it doesn't work.. I can change it.. but changing cam/heads is a lot more of a PITA once its shoehorned into that engine bay than when it's on an engine stand. I'd like to do this once and not have to touch it for a while.

black00ssFL

iTrader: (24)

My post from a couple months back listing my costs. You just can't be afraid to go used.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/15521132-post81.html

gs462

iTrader: (4)

This man knows what hes talking about im reusing my pushrods, rocker arms, block, crank. i woulda used the lifters but the motor wiped a bearing and i dont trust them.

Redbull87

iTrader: (3)

I dont know how you dont see how easy its been done just on Tech alone. Lol even youtubing vids of hci lq4/9s I havent seen under 380rwhp and those are very mild builds.I agree not to be afraid of using used and re-worked stock parts and really save on deals.Change the pistons and raise the compression,do rod bolts,oil pump,ported polished 243's,healthy cam,ls6 intake or better,longtube headers and good flowing exhaust.Your spending about 5-6k.With 10k budget..Id be building a 402 or 408 for that price and be upwards 450rwhp.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

I have a hard time trusting used parts. It was difficult enough for me to settle on keeping this LQ4 as is. I had originally thought I'd have it rebuilt.

There's a lot of TALK on here about LQ4s making 400+whp, but very few apples to apples dyno charts proving it happened. (I say apples to apples because most people change out the rotating assembly in some way. Mine is totally "stock" unaltered from the condition I got it in.)

Sure, I mean the Ls2 and the LS3 both make ~400-430 at the engine, and they're not so different, so I don't suppose it's a STRETCH.. I've just had enough car guys in conversation talk about how fast their cars are.. that I believe only half of what I hear. I have to hear it and see it repeated many many times before I'll believe it.

I'd rather spend more money on a GUARANTEE than to skimp on it for a "yea you'll probably get there.. or close to there."

If AFR can GUARANTEE me that the $5500 setup they're offering will get me in the 400++WHP range and still be streetable.. then I'll probably stick with that option vs going with boost.. simply for the sake of saving money. If not... well then I suppose "plan A" is to stick with trying to get a boost setup.

the build really won't change a lot between the 2.

ARP head studs, LSa head gaskets, new valve springs, new rockers, pushrods..new walbro 255lph pump. (I still don't trust the one in the tank. The car's still cutting out/skipping under load even after the tune. That means it's an actual parts failure.. be it a sensor, pump, injector or coil.. and not a tune problem.)

RedRocketZ28

iTrader: (19)

I will have less than 10k in mine including the price of the car and am shooting for 600+ RWHP. I am doing a budget turbo build with an on3 76mm turbo and building the hotside with the help of a buddy. No way I could afford the prices you are quoting for a turbo build.

Hell, a simple H/C swap on my LQ4 and I would be over 400 RWHP easily. That can be done CHEAP.

black00ssFL

iTrader: (24)

I made 400whp. That's with a stock lq4, non ported 799 heads, and a fairly big cam. It was also a very fresh motor that might make another 5-10hp after loosening up. If you spent a little more on ported stock castings and thinner headgaskets, you'd be even higher.

gs462

iTrader: (4)

Im beginning to think Dark just wants to whine about it and hes not actually going to do one.

Redbull87

iTrader: (3)

Lol..it would suck to lose to a NA lq4 with less money invested making the same or more hp than his high dollar turbo build for 400+hp.Iim quite curious to see what route he takes and how much he invests compared to what it puts out.Been alot of talk in this thread but still no concrete decisions made.