how I honed my block, w/ pics
08-05-2011, 02:11 PM
#22
Wow, thats kinda rough right there. I am pretty sure not everyone who works at a shop is rich. Thats the main reason why I decided against working at one. The pay kinda sux.
Since your are being a little defensive to peoples advice I should let you know that you have failed at this job. You have pretty much just rough bored your cylinders. Your rings gaps will be off and pistons/wall clearance will suck. You honed dry and without lubrication. Your stones got hot, and collected cylinder wall material because you weren't keeping the stones clean as you went. You have gouged your cylinders and if you dont atleast clean up your first attempt you may ruin your rings.
I think it is great in this world of "want it right now" that there are people willing to build their own stuff. But if you want to be good at this you need a bit more humility. Quit being so defensive dude, it just gets in the way of learning.
08-05-2011, 02:35 PM
#23
08-05-2011, 04:07 PM
#24
There's another style of bottle brush hone, it doesn't have dingle *****, it has flaps. They're like 1/16" thick, flat, about 1/8"-3/16" x 1.5". Some shops use them as a plateau hone. Great for new rings. But for used rings, stick with what you've done. Or, in other words, if you insist on going with what you now have, then use your old rings, assuming you still have them.
08-05-2011, 06:22 PM
#26
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Cylinders probably as round as a square now and tapered. Did you at least check with a dial bore gauge to see how much you honed out and how bad the taper is now? Not even going to get into the surface finish. If you dare to run it like that, at least wipe the bores out with a paper towel soaked with ATF until they come clean. Nice try and glad you wanted to tackle this on your own but your best bet would be to drop it off at a shop and pay them the $150 to hone the damn thing with torque plates to fix what you fucked up.
08-05-2011, 11:03 PM
#27
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There's another style of bottle brush hone, it doesn't have dingle *****, it has flaps. They're like 1/16" thick, flat, about 1/8"-3/16" x 1.5". Some shops use them as a plateau hone. Great for new rings. But for used rings, stick with what you've done. Or, in other words, if you insist on going with what you now have, then use your old rings, assuming you still have them.
I never took the rings off the pistons. I didn't want them getting mixed up. I know it doesn't matter if the top ring from cylinder #4 ends up in cylinder #7, for example, but I know the up side needs to stay up, and I know that a second ring can't be a top ring, and vice versa.
To all the haters, I discussed this at length with an old-school guy experienced with cylinder honing. and after your hateful comments, I called him. He checked my block a couple of hours ago, said I did very well.
His bore gauge and mic showed them all under 3.782".
And just so you haters know, that first engine that I dingle-ball-honed, ( a 350 Chevy ) is still running, still not burning oil, after about 10 years now.
Why does everyone assume I'm incompetent?
I did well, you're just jealous. Apologize, then take your negativity elsewhere. Bunch of damn 20 year old know-it-alls who really don't know jack diddly.
And the Sunnen doesn't use ATF. It uses dedicated honing oil.
08-05-2011, 11:54 PM
#29
Experience? Oh yes!
The Sunnen or equivalent is best, but is not the only way. These shops are trying to get through this recession, same as you. Some of them are willing to lie.
Torque plates are great for 350s, where the head bolts are pulling on thin decks. With your 5.3, the head bolts are pulling from the mains, for far less bore distortion.
You didn't hurt the block, at all. You didn't make any cylinders out-of-tound, either. Barrel-shaped? Maybe by a couple thousandths, but that's far less than what old rings and pistons survive in old 350s that are worn 0.025" over.
You not mentioning the old timer until now is suspicious, but at this point, there's no practical way to prove or disprove, and what you claim is about what I'd expect from an old timer, so I'll believe it.
Look, you did this thread to help some others. But not all others, and your OP acknowledged that. But to the ones you aren't helping, what you did, in their eyes, is accomplish for $20 what they believed they had to spend $150 for, then shoved it in their faces. They feel a need to be right, same as you. The only hope they have is to bash you.
They didn't think it through before making statements about you burning oil, rather than waiting and seeing. They want personal glory from their peers, they want to look knowledgeable, without typing any supporting evidence. So now, because they accused you, they can never believe you when you don't burn oil. And you shouldn't. They'll even resort to claiming that you switched blocks, or paid the $150 for the power honing job.
I suggest you let it go, and move forward with your build.
The Sunnen or equivalent is best, but is not the only way. These shops are trying to get through this recession, same as you. Some of them are willing to lie.
Torque plates are great for 350s, where the head bolts are pulling on thin decks. With your 5.3, the head bolts are pulling from the mains, for far less bore distortion.
You didn't hurt the block, at all. You didn't make any cylinders out-of-tound, either. Barrel-shaped? Maybe by a couple thousandths, but that's far less than what old rings and pistons survive in old 350s that are worn 0.025" over.
You not mentioning the old timer until now is suspicious, but at this point, there's no practical way to prove or disprove, and what you claim is about what I'd expect from an old timer, so I'll believe it.
Look, you did this thread to help some others. But not all others, and your OP acknowledged that. But to the ones you aren't helping, what you did, in their eyes, is accomplish for $20 what they believed they had to spend $150 for, then shoved it in their faces. They feel a need to be right, same as you. The only hope they have is to bash you.
They didn't think it through before making statements about you burning oil, rather than waiting and seeing. They want personal glory from their peers, they want to look knowledgeable, without typing any supporting evidence. So now, because they accused you, they can never believe you when you don't burn oil. And you shouldn't. They'll even resort to claiming that you switched blocks, or paid the $150 for the power honing job.
I suggest you let it go, and move forward with your build.
08-06-2011, 01:19 AM
#30
cool you did it yourself....
Now quit getting *** hurt when people tell you what they think on a public forum that you posted on....
From the pics it looks bad...regardless it is your motor and if it works that great! However though if it burns oil you will spend more to fix it then a Machine Shop hone would have cost to begin with...
Good luck on your build!
Matt
Now quit getting *** hurt when people tell you what they think on a public forum that you posted on....
From the pics it looks bad...regardless it is your motor and if it works that great! However though if it burns oil you will spend more to fix it then a Machine Shop hone would have cost to begin with...
Good luck on your build!
Matt
08-06-2011, 06:32 AM
#32
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There are at least 3 or 4 different grit stones You can use for that hone ,,,,,,,I would suggest getting a finer grit and without so much spring pressure finish hone just enough to smooth You're cylinders out a bit and auto tranny fluid is probably the most common choice . This type of hone is all I ever use and they turn out looking like the poster with pic saying he had it done at machine shop with the sunnen or whatever it was . Good luck .
08-06-2011, 07:02 AM
#33
^This.. I have honed many engines by just doing the 3 finger hone method as above and I always use a little oil or at the very LEAST water. mineral spirits will evaporate quickly and leave no lubrication.
I've never had an issue as far as ring seal or power but I will say this my cylinders looked much closer to the one guys who took his to a machine shop than yours. I recommend you get the finest grit stone you can find and smooth out those walls as they have much too deep scratches hopefully you didnt take too much off for a hone.
Props to trying it yourself but you need to get those walls smoother with a stone. Honing can be done diy as I've done with no issues but it needs to be smoother than that. We all have to start somewhere when I did my first motor I had my uncle who was a machinest and mechanic for 30yrs show me how far to go.
I've never had an issue as far as ring seal or power but I will say this my cylinders looked much closer to the one guys who took his to a machine shop than yours. I recommend you get the finest grit stone you can find and smooth out those walls as they have much too deep scratches hopefully you didnt take too much off for a hone.
Props to trying it yourself but you need to get those walls smoother with a stone. Honing can be done diy as I've done with no issues but it needs to be smoother than that. We all have to start somewhere when I did my first motor I had my uncle who was a machinest and mechanic for 30yrs show me how far to go.
08-06-2011, 07:54 AM
#34
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i was at advanced and autozone yesterday looking for the ball type and ALMOST walked out with one of these, my only thought was its probably too aggressive.
I simply could not bring myself to do it, and that was after i was talking to my machine shop, lol. Im a cheap *** myself, and love to do **** on a budget, and have tried many many things!
I give props to you my man! Good luck, i didnt have the guts to walk out of their with that same honing stone deal that you have.
I simply could not bring myself to do it, and that was after i was talking to my machine shop, lol. Im a cheap *** myself, and love to do **** on a budget, and have tried many many things!
I give props to you my man! Good luck, i didnt have the guts to walk out of their with that same honing stone deal that you have.
08-06-2011, 07:59 AM
#35
There is a lot of power in getting the ring seal right, and using something like this is just a crapshoot. Will it seal? Probably. Will it seal well? Probably not. Considering how much we spend on ported heads, atermarket manifolds, etc, to make power, $150-200 to properly hone the block is s steal.
08-06-2011, 09:52 AM
#36
I have been hot rodding for over 45 years now. Back in my younger days I was always on a real tight budget to say the least. I have used a dingleberry hone tool before and had good results with it. More power to you for trying to do it yourself. But you need to understand that when you post up on a public forum that you will undoubtly recieve some positive as well as some negitive comments. No need to be so defensive when some people do not agree with your efforts. Back to the subject at hand. I beleive that you need to smooth out the bores with a much finer stone or a real fine dingleberry tool or you will most likely have a sealing and oil consumption issue. As a refference point you should look at the big difference between your photo and the photos of the block that was done in the machine shop on a Sunnen machine. Good luck with your engine build!
08-06-2011, 10:19 AM
#37
I have been hot rodding for over 45 years now. Back in my younger days I was always on a real tight budget to say the least. I have used a dingleberry hone tool before and had good results with it. More power to you for trying to do it yourself. But you need to understand that when you post up on a public forum that you will undoubtly recieve some positive as well as some negitive comments. No need to be so defensive when some people do not agree with your efforts. Back to the subject at hand. I beleive that you need to smooth out the bores with a much finer stone or a real fine dingleberry tool or you will most likely have a sealing and oil consumption issue. As a refference point you should look at the big difference between your photo and the photos of the block that was done in the machine shop on a Sunnen machine. Good luck with your engine build!
Also never compare a old 350 to the LS platform, thats like comparing black & white. I'd highly suggest you yourself getting a bore dial & taking your own measurements in each cylinder at identical depths to make sure everything is as should be from top to bottom of each cylinder.
In the end its your engine & if it doesnt last its your money. Dont assume everyone commenting is some young wet behind the ears kid who doesnt know jack & you & your "old school" mechanic are the only smart ones. There are members on here I'd guarentee you are younger than your but have built more of these LS series engines making more power consistantly than you have.
Learn to take advice without getting butt hurt. Everyone likes to save money EVERYONE. but when saving $150 can cost you a engine its not worth it honestly, not even a little bit.
08-06-2011, 10:53 AM
#38
Most manufacturers recommend plateau honing to increase ring seal. It helps keep the oil in the cylinder walls without tearing the coating off the rings, moly for instance.
If you have enough material left knock down the high spots with a finer grit.
I think you probably got so much **** because of how the cylinder walls look in the picture. Maybe they aren't that bad in person.
It would be like if I wet sanded my Firehawk with 400 grit paper, hand waxed it then posted I buffed my car on the cheap. Not exactly the same but I hope you can see the point. There's only so many ways you can get to a certain type of finish.
I've used that type of hone for years when I was younger. Now to be on the safe side while it's at the machine shop I have them hone it.
I hope you can get it lined out. I don't wish bad luck on anyone working on their own cars. That's just bad car karma. However if it doesn't work I hope you let us know too.
If you have enough material left knock down the high spots with a finer grit.
I think you probably got so much **** because of how the cylinder walls look in the picture. Maybe they aren't that bad in person.
It would be like if I wet sanded my Firehawk with 400 grit paper, hand waxed it then posted I buffed my car on the cheap. Not exactly the same but I hope you can see the point. There's only so many ways you can get to a certain type of finish.
I've used that type of hone for years when I was younger. Now to be on the safe side while it's at the machine shop I have them hone it.
I hope you can get it lined out. I don't wish bad luck on anyone working on their own cars. That's just bad car karma. However if it doesn't work I hope you let us know too.
