I've been drooling over these TEA/TFS 215 heads for a long time. But I'm wondering what are the cam requirements to run an intake runner this size on an LS1/6 or 2? What would be a recommended setup to not choke the cam or not overflow anything? (If that makes any sense)

If this digresses into some cam theory, I won't complain.

 

If there is a minimum cam requirement you are already above it. I say that because I added a set TEA TFS 215s to my setup with a PatrickG spec'd cam smaller than yours (218/230 - 0.600/0.600 - 116 LSA) and picked up good power throughout the rpm range.

 

Being that the tfs do change the valve angle to 13.5 i would just have a cam spec'd a catalog cam may not give you p&V issues but will probably leave some power on the table. Also unless you are running a carb or sheet metal intake most lsx style are out flowed on a good set of heads by .600 so no need to lift any higher

 

^ Hmmm... I'm not thinking you can outflow the 102 intake on a 346... I was under the impression that the heads will always be the metered restriction (next to the TB.) But correct me if I'm wrong, by all means.


And my way of thinking is that a higher lift and shorter duration will need a healthy flowing head to gain as much early cylinder filling capabilities as possible as not to NEED a higher lift cam... But then again, the CYL can only hold so much air. .... Hmmm.. Maybe that's why you say that more than .600" lift may be overkill on a 215cc head.

So with a larger CC head, a cam like mine would be border-line over-caming the heads and engine?? (I'm thinking out loud here) or Maybe a 215 head would be better suited for a low 230 duration low 600 lift cam because of the increased flow of the larger port..... (I think I'm on to something here.. finally figuring this out maybe... I love theory.. ... )

 

Im not sure on a 102 but a ported 90 a believe maxes out around 280-290cfm so if your heads flow past 300 you are not using that extra cfm so say if your intake stops at 290cfm and you heads reach 300cfm at .600 lift there would be no need to go any higher.
since you have a 102 i do not know what they max out at but i would find out and base you cam on that as compared to the heads.

It also goes on what you want to do with the car and what are your goals power wise. Really though the tea/tfs 215s should work great and having patrick G spec your cam you should be very happy with the set-up

 

^ Yeah.. I've got a PatG Cam now, was thinking of switching some time, but I'm just curious and not really in a hurry. I guess I'm more/less wondering if TEA/TFS 215's would work with my present PatG Tq cam @ 224/228 .637 .639 110 and ported '04 243 heads. I'd have to ask Pat, but I asked a while ago in a thread and was advised AFR 205's.

But I guess I'm mostly wondering what guidelines to stay between for the 215's. They've always had impressive mid to low lift flow numbers.

 

Couple things to consider.....when runnin' a .630ish theoretical lift cam the
valve retainer only moves about .605-.610" south because of pushrod, rocker,
and valve deflection....I've measured this w/magnetic base dial indicator.
Also the MAX lift of a cam is not extremely important since the valve spends
an awfully short time @ full lift..Mid-lift flow #s like the TFS are so important
because the valve sees these lift #s twice each time. Valve acceleration or
rise over run is what makes torque/power which explains why 214-220 dur.
intake lobes are making such great power lately...The valve isn't open for a
long time but rather opens quickly in a short time span to get the good stuff
in and squeez'n it...

 

I am no cam guru but just to mention. It will need a set of Yellaterra rockers. Stockers will NOT work. Shimming them will not work. You will not get the proper swipe marks. Either too much or too little and no one makes a shim that is inbetween the normal sizes.

Figure to throw that out there now so you can plan as that is considered a standard purchase.

I know someone who did not heed the warning, and the car did not make good power and recently broke a timing chain and is hoping to fix his TFS heads...

As for the intake, the majority of aftermarket, ported cyl head are capable of flow rates far beyone a stock style intake. Thats why most times you see gains since techically the intake is restrictive and potentially turbulant. I would talk with TEA about intake choice but since its street use no need to mention running a carb intake, elbow, and tb or anthing like that.

If your doing heads, look at the cam too. I know what i posted bout the cost but again if your doing something, do it right.

 

You can use stock rockers with trickflow heads.


I wouldn't use yt rockers
Heavy as hell, not worth the cost.

 

https://ls1tech.com/forums/14109610-post32.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/13879292-post9.html

 

I'm fairly certain that these heads, like many others, will simply improve upon the engine - throughout the entire rev-range.

So, if you pick a cam that is designed to do what you want it to do, the heads will make it even better.

Comp are making some fairly good shelf LSR grinds at present, which appear to be working well enough, whilst maintaining valvetrain friendliness.

cheers

 

I have the perfect cam for those heads. I have the same heads and Allen Futral custom speced me a cam for using those heads. My best N/A track time full weight with stock suspension was a 10.90@123mph with a 1.46 60ft. ran a 6.9@98mph in the 1/8 mile.. All on the stock bottom end motor. I have this cam forsale for $200.00 plus shipping cost. PM me if your interested. I have about 6 thousand miles on the cam. I don't need it anymore since I pulled the stock LS6 block out of my 2002 Camaro and built a LS2 stroker motor with a EPS custom cam for my new build.. Let me know if your interested bro. The cam is like new. The specs are 232/236-646/612@114LSA

The car made 447rwhp and 403 torque through a stalled auto and a 12bolt rearend.. With your 102mm intake and M6 tranny your car should make a bit more than mine did to the tire and probably run 2-3 more mph in the 1/4 than I did.

 

Wrong!! I would use these over any other roller rocker or stock rocker. I have the Harland Sharps which is heavier the the YT rockers. It all comes down to correct push rode length. If everything is properly setup then there should be no valve float. My old stock bottom end motor reved to 7200rpm with ease..

 

Also not true. Thunder Racing makes a kit that lets you use your stock rockers with these heads and no one has had any issues yet... I prefer the after market roller rockers but that's just me.

 

Most of this is achieved by custom specing out the cam for your build as Allan did for my old build.. This cam I have isn't an off the shelf cam rather a cam designed to work with those heads to get the most amount of power out of the that setup. Here is a example of using the right cam for the build. I am using the same heads and my ported fast 90mm intake and tb for my new build. I sent the heads out to machine the bore and put new intake valves in. The bore is now a 4" to match the bore of the engine and we went from a 2.040 intake valve that comes standard in the TrickFlow 215cnc heads and went to a 2.055 intake valve. I talked with geoff over at EPS and gave him all the information on my car from the weight of it to the amount of compression the motor will be making. What intake and heads I am using. Using his calculations we came up with a cam that we could lean on to make good power with the smaller runner heads. There is a science to making power which is why I wouldn't just buy an off the shelf cam for my builds. The new cam that was speced is a 246/255-612/636@113+2LSA Because of the valve angle of these heads this allows you to run a higher lift cam and to make more power than most other heads..

 

i have heard this over and over it makes my head hurt.

when it comes down to it, bronze valve guides are susceptible to wear a lot more then the powdered metal, i have always been baffled why they are even provided in almost all aftermarket heads.
sure they supposedly give better swipe pattern when setup correctly but maybe the aftermarket manufactures that go out their way to change valve angles should really rethink that setup especially when the customer has to drop another 4-500 on rocker arms, not even including labor necessary to set them up.
i have etp heads and use stock rocker arms, but etp went out of their way to make a custom stand to use stock rocker arms.
my heads also have bronze guides also.

valve guides
seats
valve tips

are all wear and tear items, one cannot expect these to last a life time.

fact is they are much more heavier then a stock ls rocker, personally if i could avoid slapping on that extra weight i would.
i have owned a set and i was shocked at the weight when i received them. sold them a few months later before bothering to install.
the headaches of setting up combined with the price and lack luster benefits deterred me.
let alone making sure you did not get a screwed up batch and determining if they fit under the stock valve covers.

if someone is having massive valve train instability i would look beyond rockers.
seat pressure
pushrod dia/wall thickness length etc.
valve train weight

i could see roller rockers being beneficial in higher lift cam setups, but for most it is probably not really necessary.
i rather get a set of jesels or t&d over the yt and hardland units.

i have no problem doing that with stock ls2 rockers either.
granted mine have a hardland sharp bearing upgrade.

 

I think he'll go a month on 10 psi and then want more. Caprice PPV is a heavy car.

My buddy is running stock LSA heads on iron 370, no clue personally if they flow a lot more or just a better casting than 823s.

 

I agree I don't see the need for spending Mamo money or dealing with the wait time when a set of LS3 heads will be fine for this combo and you could have them next week. You probably wouldn't even notice the difference between ls3 heads and mamofied heads at the boost levels the OP wants. Response isn't going to be an issue with that type of blower with the 402 cubic inches either. In fact if you wanted to spend that kind of money on heads it would be a waste with the little lsa blower. I'd spend it on a bigger blower instead.

Nothing against Mamo so I hope my words aren't misunderstood. I'm speaking purely from my low budget mind and getting good results on a budget. If budget is of zero concern then disregard.

 

I think they may actually flow less there is a wing in the intake port on the LSA heads that the 823's don't have, but the casting itself is stronger.

I was in a similar situation with my 377 with stock heads. Do I buy really nice heads and keep the D1x or do I keep my heads and buy an F1a-94. I chose to keep my heads on the motor and buy the bigger head unit. Same price after selling my D1x but better heads may have given me 50 rwhp, but the bigger head unit gave me 200 more rwhp. I spent the money on what gave me the most power gains for the money. Of course there are limits to this and do plan to go to better heads for the next combo, but it worked for me.