Hmmm....Patriot Performance
Banned
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 603
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From: L.I. NY
I only made 400 HP and 384 TQ with my TEA 1.5s ( the ones with the stock exhaust valves and no hand finishing ). TR 224/224 114lsa, LS6 intake, stock TB and MAF, Pacesetters w/ ory, closed up Borla, ASP crank pulley and all the belts, unlocked. Stock converter and 2.73 gears. Before anyone jumps on the converter and gear thing, my car also has the 3.96* knock mod and max timing on Atap is 15* at WOT.
i was at the SBSO. PP did have a good showing...for using "race style heads". but you must remember, non of MTI's, GTP's,TEA's, AS's fastest H/C cars were there. i think PP will not get the respect until it sets records...at least not from me. Both cars were set up at TSP and used the tweaked heads?
What is the price diff between the "off the shelf" and and the TSP hand tweaked heads?
I hate dyno's,if it was not needed for tune I would never use one.My trans died on the dyno and I am waiting on a few more parts to hold the new power.My car has been down since Thanksgiving and I can't wait for that TRUE test,the 1/4 mile.
What is the price diff between the "off the shelf" and and the TSP hand tweaked heads?
I hate dyno's,if it was not needed for tune I would never use one.My trans died on the dyno and I am waiting on a few more parts to hold the new power.My car has been down since Thanksgiving and I can't wait for that TRUE test,the 1/4 mile.
Originally Posted by angst911
because not every noob that asks questions knows that, and this boy is the 1st to respond usually to start bashing.
Using the rational of angst:
You are kidding right? You don't believe you are a troll??? OK, I'll assume you don't even know you are a troll. For starters, you post a select group of data designed to prove your point, ignoring any data that might contradict your point. It is clear from your prior posts that you had your mind made up before this post. Next, you jump on someone else's thread with negative, contrived "results", rather that starting a thread with your rant. Next, your condescending comment following the "results". Further ... well, if you don't get it, I doubt I can convince you.
Son, I've got more knowledge that you are ever likely to get. If you think I am a troll, you don't even know the definition. What question? You didn't ask a question. You just posted carefully culled data to prove a point.
1) The hell it doesn't. It is not the numbers, per se, that make the post trollish. It is the whole post, including the carefull selection of "numbers" that prove your point.
2) I don't really care what you think the facts are, it is clear that the aren't all the facts.
3) I don't care whether you think PP heads suck, and I don't care whether they really do.
4) I don't see any questions in your post.
5) get a life
Originally Posted by SPANKY LS1
How does my posting results make me a troll?
IMO, you are more of a troll in this thread, at least I have some knowledge and facts to post, and asked legitimate questions.
Just because they are not the numbers, facts, or questions that you want to hear, does not make them "trollish" or false.
2) I don't really care what you think the facts are, it is clear that the aren't all the facts.
3) I don't care whether you think PP heads suck, and I don't care whether they really do.
4) I don't see any questions in your post.
5) get a life
Originally Posted by critter
Using the rational of angst:
You are kidding right? You don't believe you are a troll??? OK, I'll assume you don't even know you are a troll. For starters, you post a select group of data designed to prove your point, ignoring any data that might contradict your point. It is clear from your prior posts that you had your mind made up before this post. Next, you jump on someone else's thread with negative, contrived "results", rather that starting a thread with your rant. Next, your condescending comment following the "results". Further ... well, if you don't get it, I doubt I can convince you.
Son, I've got more knowledge that you are ever likely to get. If you think I am a troll, you don't even know the definition. What question? You didn't ask a question. You just posted carefully culled data to prove a point.
1) The hell it doesn't. It is not the numbers, per se, that make the post trollish. It is the whole post, including the carefull selection of "numbers" that prove your point.
2) I don't really care what you think the facts are, it is clear that the aren't all the facts.
3) I don't care whether you think PP heads suck, and I don't care whether they really do.
4) I don't see any questions in your post.
5) get a life
You are kidding right? You don't believe you are a troll??? OK, I'll assume you don't even know you are a troll. For starters, you post a select group of data designed to prove your point, ignoring any data that might contradict your point. It is clear from your prior posts that you had your mind made up before this post. Next, you jump on someone else's thread with negative, contrived "results", rather that starting a thread with your rant. Next, your condescending comment following the "results". Further ... well, if you don't get it, I doubt I can convince you.
Son, I've got more knowledge that you are ever likely to get. If you think I am a troll, you don't even know the definition. What question? You didn't ask a question. You just posted carefully culled data to prove a point.
1) The hell it doesn't. It is not the numbers, per se, that make the post trollish. It is the whole post, including the carefull selection of "numbers" that prove your point.
2) I don't really care what you think the facts are, it is clear that the aren't all the facts.
3) I don't care whether you think PP heads suck, and I don't care whether they really do.
4) I don't see any questions in your post.
5) get a life
TECH Fanatic
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 6
From: RainbowCity,Alabama
Originally Posted by 1QWIKZ
i was at the SBSO. PP did have a good showing...for using "race style heads". but you must remember, non of MTI's, GTP's,TEA's, AS's fastest H/C cars were there. i think PP will not get the respect until it sets records...at least not from me.I'm sure that at any point and time,if anyone wants to match race,tell them call out Trevor,Jason or Lynda.Along as it is the same weight,H/C car on the same track,with the same rules.
I personally hand worked all 3 cars heads.Don't try and take anything away from how well their cars run.I guess everyone forgot the thunder shootout.If you look back at the southern shootout and the sbso,there was only a handful of cars that ran 10's,5 to be exact.Three of these cars have Patriot heads on them.
Last edited by TVWilkes; Mar 17, 2004 at 08:40 AM.
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TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,341
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by SPANKY LS1
Good examples there. I'm sure that you know that 238/242 is a huge cam, cars with similar "cam only" setups often dyno 420-440 cam only with that size cam or smaller, btw. Secondly, why the wildly varying results? PP heads are CNCed, right? Terry keeps saying that there is no "special set of heads", that they are all the same. How can two identical setups be off 40-50+ rwhp? How many of the above cars use off the shelf heads, as opposed to locally assembled and finished heads? Just curious, seems like the results vary wildly, which is confusing since all the heads are identical.
Shawn
Shawn
Its the difference that matters. Also dynos are TUNING TOOLS ONLY!
I'd rather have a 10 second HCI car that dynos 420RWHP than a car that runs 11.90@118mph with 450RWHP
It is still going to take a couple of months to see what all the new heads are going to run. A lot of Northern tracks don't open for a month or so. It takes a lot more than heads and a cam to run a good number. Competition is good, it drives the industry...
Originally Posted by TVWilkes
There was alot of fast cars running low 11 0's and teens.What type of heads do you think they were running?There was cars from Thunder and other shops.One of the Thunder cars had a transbreak.The car Trevor raced in the finals was fast.He has a proshifted,solid roller motor.
I'm sure that at any point and time,if anyone wants to match race,tell them call out Trevor,Jason or Lynda.Along as it is the same weight,H/C car on the same track,with the same rules.
I personally hand worked all 3 cars heads.Don't try and take anything away from how well their cars run.I guess everyone forgot the thunder shootout.If you look back at the southern shootout and the sbso,there was only a handful of cars that ran 10's,5 to be exact.Three of these cars have Patriot heads on them.
I'm sure that at any point and time,if anyone wants to match race,tell them call out Trevor,Jason or Lynda.Along as it is the same weight,H/C car on the same track,with the same rules.
I personally hand worked all 3 cars heads.Don't try and take anything away from how well their cars run.I guess everyone forgot the thunder shootout.If you look back at the southern shootout and the sbso,there was only a handful of cars that ran 10's,5 to be exact.Three of these cars have Patriot heads on them.
by the way terry, i am sure the other racers didnt have their heads pulled aside by their porter to get "personally hand worked".
IquikZ, nor do most other head porters out there...your talking about tsp's race version...& like everyones been saying all along out of all those people that have dynoed their patriot head combos have actually been to the track with their cars? I've only seen a couple since theyve had their heads on and most have faired pretty well.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 6
From: RainbowCity,Alabama
Originally Posted by 1QWIKZ
i wasnt taking anything away from there performance. but what i was saying was that not all your heads perform this way because they are not "personally hand worked". if you had consistent results like the companies i mentioned, there would be less skepticism. i was disappointed on how the SBSO turned out. it became more of a sponsers' race than a racers' race. everyone was either on the MTI bandwagon, or PP bandwagon, or LG bandwagon...whatever happened to just racing?? i understand about product support, but this was a blatant display of "my heads are better than yours" .
by the way terry, i am sure the other racers didnt have their heads pulled aside by their porter to get "personally hand worked".
by the way terry, i am sure the other racers didnt have their heads pulled aside by their porter to get "personally hand worked".
The cylinder heads were hand-finished because they're the race-series cylinder heads that are being offered for $2,249 outright. If you order a race-series cylinder head, yours will be hand-finished as well. We will be doing in-house assembly and hand-finishing. This isn't a head that we only do for our cars. Anyone that spends the added money will get the same attention to detail.
There were plenty of competitors at the Southern Shootout running a variety of cylinder heads such as Absolute Speed, GTP, etc., and I doubt that Patriot Performance were the only set of cylinder heads being run at the Spring Break Shootout. Dyno numbers make me smile because my auto has never been a dyno queen, but it is setup to run at the track. You should look at the change in power as a percentage, not a straight number. Gaining 30 RWHP when you're making 430 RWHP isn't as impressive as gaining 30 RWHP when you're making 300 RWHP. I put down 430 RWHP unlocked and ran 10's in mediocre weather.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
There were plenty of competitors at the Southern Shootout running a variety of cylinder heads such as Absolute Speed, GTP, etc., and I doubt that Patriot Performance were the only set of cylinder heads being run at the Spring Break Shootout. Dyno numbers make me smile because my auto has never been a dyno queen, but it is setup to run at the track. You should look at the change in power as a percentage, not a straight number. Gaining 30 RWHP when you're making 430 RWHP isn't as impressive as gaining 30 RWHP when you're making 300 RWHP. I put down 430 RWHP unlocked and ran 10's in mediocre weather.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
SSU Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,857
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
This thread is so ******* stupid. I'm one the the biggest bench racers on this site, and even to me its OBVIOUS that SPANKY is a tool (no offense). Its just that you OBVIOUSLY have a problem with PP and want to take it out on the board whenever a thread comes up about them. WE DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR PROBLEM WITH PATRIOT! Do you even have PP heads? You tout the issues more than the people with ACTUAL problems. Buy some or shutup. Everyone said the same **** to me when I bashed ARE and even lost my mod-ship over it. Sure, I was right and now ARE admits the mistakes and even lost they're sponsorship but I think they are really gaining ground now. Anyway, I was wrong then, and you are wrong now.
And this is for everyone: THESE ARE DIFFERENT DYNO's, DIFFERENT cams, DIFFERENT tuners/tuning, DIFFERENT trannys/clutches/flywheels/converters, DIFF....I can go on ALLLLL day. But you guys know that stuff right? Thats why your much praised Raughammer went 10.6 with LESS than 400rw? Right? DYNO's are for **** and EVERY shop has good and bad cars. I could put PP 5.3's and a 228+ cam and dyno 39x, then re-tune, switch headers/catback, etc. and re dyno 430+. This is THE stupidest argument I've ever seen on this site.
and now ARE admits the mistakes and even lost they're sponsorship but I think they are really gaining ground now. Anyway, I was wrong then, and you are wrong now.And this is for everyone: THESE ARE DIFFERENT DYNO's, DIFFERENT cams, DIFFERENT tuners/tuning, DIFFERENT trannys/clutches/flywheels/converters, DIFF....I can go on ALLLLL day. But you guys know that stuff right? Thats why your much praised Raughammer went 10.6 with LESS than 400rw? Right? DYNO's are for **** and EVERY shop has good and bad cars. I could put PP 5.3's and a 228+ cam and dyno 39x, then re-tune, switch headers/catback, etc. and re dyno 430+. This is THE stupidest argument I've ever seen on this site.
question for 1QWIKZ
what is the difference between a set of hand finished patriots, tea's "hand finished to competition level," or absolute speeds since they are all hand finished??? (besides price . . .)
its not like these are heads you cant buy from a sponsor, they are heads the were specially setup for these cars that the average person cant get, so why are you whining about them???
what is the difference between a set of hand finished patriots, tea's "hand finished to competition level," or absolute speeds since they are all hand finished??? (besides price . . .)
its not like these are heads you cant buy from a sponsor, they are heads the were specially setup for these cars that the average person cant get, so why are you whining about them???
Last edited by Tally TransAm; Mar 17, 2004 at 12:40 PM.
question for you Tally
what other cars have run the times that the 3 cars at the SBSO? i am not whining, just questioning why was this event so sponser oriented. i see in your sig that you have PP 5.3s. what times have you run and what kinda power have you put down?
what other cars have run the times that the 3 cars at the SBSO? i am not whining, just questioning why was this event so sponser oriented. i see in your sig that you have PP 5.3s. what times have you run and what kinda power have you put down?
the race style heads have only been out for a very short period.
i put down 405 hp and 392 ftlbs through the flowcrapper muffler. 414 hp and 400.4 ftlbs @ 5600 rpms with the caps open (dyno computer crapped out at 5600 and wouldnt work for the rest of the day, based on the previous plots it would have been in the low 420's hp and 400 ftlbs.)
et's are hindered by the stock rear and gears, but i turned 12.02 @ 120.3 on a 2.04 60' (weight of 3450 and DA of +400-500 ft). this was with my 224 cam (dynoed 390 hp and 380 ftlbs at that time). with the new cam and since i have been tuned now im shooting for 122-123 mph next time out
i put down 405 hp and 392 ftlbs through the flowcrapper muffler. 414 hp and 400.4 ftlbs @ 5600 rpms with the caps open (dyno computer crapped out at 5600 and wouldnt work for the rest of the day, based on the previous plots it would have been in the low 420's hp and 400 ftlbs.)
et's are hindered by the stock rear and gears, but i turned 12.02 @ 120.3 on a 2.04 60' (weight of 3450 and DA of +400-500 ft). this was with my 224 cam (dynoed 390 hp and 380 ftlbs at that time). with the new cam and since i have been tuned now im shooting for 122-123 mph next time out