Why Even Do Heads ???? (i May Be A Dumbass But...)
03-27-2004, 07:55 AM
#1
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,807
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why Even Do Heads ???? (i May Be A Dumbass But...) OK PLEASE BARE WITH ME ON THIS ONE I DO HAVE "LIMITED" KNOLEDGE IS THIS SUBJECT MATTER.... BUT I JUST CANT RESIST ASKING WHY SO MANY PEOPLE DO A HEAD AND CAM PACKAGE IT JUST SEEMS LIEK A WAST OF MONEY BY THIS I MEAN I WAS LOOKING AT DYNOS OF H\C PACKAGES AND THEN JUST DYNOS OF THE CAM ON STOCK HEADS AND IT SEEMED TO ME THAT IT WAS APPROX A 60\40 SPLIT TO THE POWER ADDED BY THE 2 UPGRADES COMBINED BY THIS I MEAN THAT IF THE H\C PACKAGE GAVE YOU 80 HP THE THE CAM ALONE GAVE ABOUT 40-50 SOMETHING OF IT... WHEN COMPARING THIS TO THE COST OF A CAM AND HEADS IT SEEMS LIKE YOUR GONNA DUMP 2 K ON HEADS AND ABOUT 800 FOR A COMPLETE CAM PACKAGE SO WOULDENT I BE BETTER OFF JUST DOING A GOOD CAM AND THEN USING A POWER ADDER TO MAKE MORE POWER BEACUSE IT SEEMS AT THAT POINT HEADS IS NOT
03-27-2004, 08:04 AM
#2
Most cam only packages are around 380-410 rwhp, with a few hitting 420-430. A 420-430 cam only package can become a 470-480 rwhp H/C package with the addition of a good set of heads. More is to be gained, percentage wise with a big cam partially because our heads flow so well in stock form, light years ahead of LT1 or other "tradtional" heads. That being said, 40-50 rwhp is a good gain for a set of ported stock heads, IMO. Once AFR or other aftermarket heads are available and have been developed those numbers will probably grow. There is a big difference between a 380-430 rwhp car and a 470-480 rwhp car. As far as the power adder, simple, the heads are there all the time. The heads allow you to ALWAYS have 470-480 rwhp, no bottles to fill. At 400+ rwhp, 40+ rwhp is hard to come by. All the easy stuff (boltons, pulley, headers, orp, lid, filter, maf, etc) is done. Getting to 400 is easy, after that every HP is incrementally harder to come by. 40-50 from a set of $2000 heads is a bargain at these levels, IMO.
Shawn
Shawn
03-27-2004, 08:11 AM
#3
TECH Senior Member
In short, I don't want to fill a bottle just to run 120 MPH trap speeds (and I'm pretty bored in a car that can't at least do that) at 3500+ lbs. And above all else I want outstanding drivability so that rules out a monster sized cam.
So, what I ended up with is over 420 RWHP with almost no downside to it.
But yeah, by far your bigger bang for the $$$ is the cam.
So, what I ended up with is over 420 RWHP with almost no downside to it.
But yeah, by far your bigger bang for the $$$ is the cam.
03-27-2004, 08:22 AM
#5
TECH Senior Member
Do some reading in the forced induction section. Running FI is not as simple (nor as cheap) as a newcomer might think. Most people prefer to stay NA for a daily driver.
03-27-2004, 08:25 AM
#6
The downside to that is $$$$. By your first post, I assumed that $$$$ was an issue. That being said, a $6000+ FI setup would probably outperform a $2500 H/C package on the dyno. Although a $2500 470 rwhp H/C package that reliably runs high 10s/low 11s at 3400lbs is doable. With FI, you might run 10s, you might run 12s. If you want a real killer setup, get some $2000 heads, a $400 cam, and a $500 NOS kit and run low 10s/high 9s for ~$3000, outrunning all but the top 2 or 3 FI cars. (both hardcore race setups, BTW). Not to mention, from what I have seen, the FI cars that are running 9s or faster have had alot of trial and error and some hurt parts/feelings. Alot of issues, problems, and finickyness (is that a word) are present in the FI world. Too many 550+ rwhp cars running 11s or 12s for my taste. NA is the way to go for reliability, ease of install, cost, streetability, and add some NOS if you need a little extra, IMO.
03-27-2004, 08:26 AM
#7
I think your only looking at peak numbers and that's only part of making power. It's actually a fairly small part. Good heads will help with area under the curve at everypoint. Some of the cam only set ups make ok to good torque, but I have yet to see cam only set ups make 400rwtq @ 3,500 rpms like one the TEA 2.5 LS6 & FMS cam set ups do. Likewise, even with a small/medium cam and TEA's older heads my car makes an honest 380+ rwtq @ 4,000 rpm. Damian made ~400+ rwtq @ 4000 rpm with more recent TEA 5.3's and FMS cam. Most heads and cam package (with proper cam selection) will simply make more power under the curve and be faster than cam only set ups even IF the peak numbers are the same. Some of the big cams can turn into torqueless wonders making a weak 350rwtq @ 400 rpm. Check out the dyno graphs and look at the whole curve. Look at the power evern 300 to 500 rpms.
Trending Topics
03-27-2004, 08:36 AM
#9
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,807
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
True I Had Seem Wider Tq Bands For Hc Packages Than Just For A Cam ... I Dunno, Im Not Doubiting You All It Just Seems Like A Bad Deal At This Point I Mean 2-3 K For 40 Hp I Mean Cam Looks Like A Good Meal But ... Well Who Kows Its All Soo Far Off Well Just Seen In About 18 Months Or So... Bact To The Tranny For Now Thnks Guys!!!
03-27-2004, 08:48 AM
#10
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: "Tr"Asheville
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dude just do what I did, find a reputable company that ports heads, offer them a service that they <b><u>need</b></u> and tell them you don't want money in exchange just a set of heads 
Then the cost of your H/C package drops dramatically.
-Sly
Then the cost of your H/C package drops dramatically.-Sly
03-27-2004, 11:31 AM
#12
Banned
iTrader: (45)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NC
Posts: 2,556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All good responses here. Yea the bang for the buck is not as high with heads, but after or unless you do heads, you'll be scratching your own head on how to extract more hp going N/A. 
03-27-2004, 11:40 AM
#13
Originally Posted by slyws6
Dude just do what I did, find a reputable company that ports heads, offer them a service that they <b><u>need</b></u> and tell them you don't want money in exchange just a set of heads Then the cost of your H/C package drops dramatically.
-Sly
Then the cost of your H/C package drops dramatically.-Sly
03-27-2004, 12:46 PM
#16
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,807
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
but not a bad idea (not blowing them) but trading swome service or just find a smaller company and help the out with a few customers hell i permote the hell out of the people that do work for me weather its cars or the guy who cuts my hair ive sent just about anyone i know at very least a sizeable ammount of bunisess which in turn pays off for me hell over the last 3 yrs ive sent my paint guy like 40 cars my audio guy probaly more in the last 4 yrs my barber at least 10 new customers my general mechanic at least 5-7 people in the last 2 yrs ... and the list rolls on hell i guess im kinda like spam in living form ... all well its good for everyone
03-27-2004, 05:52 PM
#18
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can run some pretty good times at the track with a cam only setup. I have seen 10.9's at over 125mph. This is with a fairly small cam in todays standards. Its the whole setup not dyno #'s. One of the cars that ran 10's pulled 370hp unlocked on a dyno. It would kill most 460hp h/c packages at the track. Its not that common but it can be done.
