Advanced Induction

iTrader: (2)

I do not sell other shops' heads, only our own. I think the TFS castings are some of the best available, so I have done a few different size heads based on them - the 230 is the first one I've put up while I decide on details for the others over the next few months. The initial pricing is simply to get them out into the wild, and give us more data/feedback.

They're all based on the TFS LSx Porter Casting - bolt holes & guides/seats pressed into the head is all that has been done when they show up:


The 223cc Dart program was done a few years back as a private label as something that would be roughly equivalent to our CNC'd 243's. Compared to our 243 it has a bit more exhaust port & available p2v at the same chamber volume, which is why it doesn't have large valves in it. I had run across the program awhile back & figured it'd make a good budget head. I may see about putting a PM guide in them in the future like the PM option for our TFS heads since regardless of manufacturer bronze guides don't last as long as PM.

Regarding the as cast 220's, I have a 232cc program for them as well for guys who already own them.


I normally don't run large heads in most applications. At the same time w/ the OE style manifolds guys routinely run 260-280cc heads on LS2/LS3's/etc. & retain great drivability. That isn't to say less head wouldn't do just as well or better, but that 230cc isn't necessarily too large.

Uhh.. no. Why would anyone copy someone else's casting & then append the victim's name to the product? As mentioned above I use TFS' bare casting as a basis for our work, which I think is a selling point since their casting is quite nice.

I wouldn't worry about a few cc volume difference between our 243's, darts, etc. Same w/ deck thickness - these aren't TF/promod etc heads, and in most cases it isn't an issue. IIRC, GM heads are often in the ~.380-.390" range, Dart's are ~.100" more min thickness, and the TFS is ~.640" - all work for most applications.

It is something I did awhile back & just never put up on the site. Some guys wanted a slightly larger port for improved aesthetics.



Hope that helps; I'll add info/pics/etc. to the site as I have time. Thanks!

-Phil

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

My internet connection out here SUCKS. I've had faster and more reliable service via dial-up in the 90's.....

What did the graphs look like between the 226's and the RHS's, particularly the mid lift flows? It just strikes me as odd that Phil would say an aftermarket casting that they work over, is the equivalentof a stock casting they work over.

It's purely an aesthetic thing, but kinda neat with the RHS in the head for the 102 owners.... (**** you guys. You were thinking it too...)

**EDIT** Phils post popped up in the middle of typing mine. Nevermind.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Thank you Phil for coming into this thread. I'm really excited with all the new things you guys are doing.

I e-mailed you back wtih my exact cam specs to see which head you think would be best for my setup.

Which TFS bare casting do you use for the 230cc program? 215cc or 225cc?

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

I seem to remember that Dart was using a different aluminum alloy as well, but don't recall the details.

mac62989

iTrader: (1)

Phil are you going to offer some system match heads/cam kits with these new aftermarket castings? How would the Dart/RHS heads stack up against the HCR 241s? Both seem like good options for guys like me who dont own 241s.. Glad to see new products coming from you guys!

quiet_storm98

iTrader: (48)

those darts seem like a good deal...i may look into those in a few months when im ready to do h/c again

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

You have to admit, the Trickflow's or Dart's, CNC'd at those prices, is cheap as hell. Loving the options am I, Joe Rogan.

JUSTINSWS6

The tsp 215's and a ms3 cam with a fast 102 i made 475 rwhp they flow good and made great power.

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

No doubt the TSP heads are good.... This is a thread about AI heads....?

JUSTINSWS6

Wow it is..... Im telling him what he can make with the setup i had instead of buying possibly shitty heads then not making the power he wanted and being disappointed. I have not used ai but have used tsp afr and tfs and tsp and afr are the best

mac62989

iTrader: (1)

Most of us already know AFR are quality heads. I dont think we would be interested in AI if we werent looking for great power on a budget. I havent used AI yet either but I have never seen "shitty results" from anything they touched..

Dr Tran

iTrader: (10)

So your saying he won't make any power using AI heads? And that they are shitty?

JUSTINSWS6

No saying i would be worried not seeing any one elses dyno or track results on these heads never said they were shitty said they could be i havent seen anyone try them and never dynoed or flowed any

mac62989

iTrader: (1)

Flow numbers are on AI's website. They slightly outflow their 226cc 243s and theres guys making awesome power with those heads..

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Thanks to all for all the feedback in this thread. I am on a budget and am just trying to figure out what to do in regards to what heads to buy. If money were no option, I'd go with a new set of AFR 215 heads, but being on a budget, these Dart/RHS heads intrige me. Phil got back with me saying that the Dart/RHS heads theoretically may be up 5 to 10 hp over the 226cc 243 heads because of slightly more compression, so that is a plus. I have always read that the Dart heads had a lot of potential in the hands of a good ported and no doubt that AI is a very good head porter, so you know their CNC program from these heads is spot on. Not having dyno number and track times to back these heads up is the only drawback, but they are very new, so I'm sure they will start poping up soon. We all can agree that we've seen very impressive results with AI's 226cc 243 heads, so even if the Dart/RHS heads are equivilent to the 226cc 243 heads, it's going to be a win win.

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

Curious to know what the valve angle is on the Dart's. I see they say you achieve the same PTV as a stock 243 with their Dart @ 63cc

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

I e-mailed Phil back to see what I could mill the Dart/RHS heads to and still run my cam (gave him the specs) without having to flycut. I want 11:1 compression.

Advanced Induction

iTrader: (2)

Glad you like it - I have quite a few heads/programs that I've never taken the time to put up on the site etc.

Like I said, it ISNT based on any TFS head that you can run, and has none of their machine work outside of bolt holes. Look at the first part of my first post to you - I included a photo of the bare casting we use. It cannot be run as-is - it is designed to be ported. Same with all of the other aftermarket casting based heads we do - it is all our machine work/designs applied to bare castings. The 230cc TFS program CAN be cut into the 'as cast 220' head they sell since the valves are the same sizes, seat inserts are in the same locations, etc. I've not attempted to cut it into any of their other heads, and have a few other programs larger & smaller than this one that I'll get info on the site for as time allows.


Correct, Dart has always marketed their castings being 355T6.


Yes, we're currently doing complete heads/cam kits with them, and I'll get that info on the site ASAP. The Dart based head being roughly equivalent in port capacity etc. to our 226cc 243's is going to be a few #'s up over the HCR241 all else being equal.

We've always been so busy that realizing it was often 3-8mos after making a new head that we began to really try to dig through emails etc. to gather feedback/results for the site, I figured it was better to just give guys the incentive so we'll have more results in the near term. Granted, I still have to take the time to collect info, make graphs, and get them on the site - something I've historically not prioritized as I probably should.


The 230cc head is going to typically be 15-20 #'s better than our 226cc 243's... which tend to consistently put up results many aftermarket headed combinations don't match. The flow #'s may be high, but they're just data that is ultimately useless to you guys. Spending $ on heads is buying components and primarily machine work, and our niche is selling some of the highest end work available at any price.

Here are couple results:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...ae-497std.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...p-448rwtq.html

mercccc

I like this car the most. https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...st-2009-a.html. 99mph in the 1/8 mile in a gto is sick.

Do you guys do any 243/799 stuff with larger valves. Im doing a 4.070 forged l92 and was wondering if a larger valve would be better. I want to stay with a catherdral port head and I allready have a set of 799's.

Rise did you end up getting that cam from ed?

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Yep, got it sitting in my garage right now. The cam was specked to go with Ed's ported 243 heads, but these Dart heads seem like a great deal. I'm not sure how the cam will work with them though.