Testing New LS1/LS6 Timing Chain Dampener
06-13-2012, 01:53 PM
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Testing New LS1/LS6 Timing Chain Dampener Hello all!
I'm new to this forum, but I've been here quite a few times to get some answers to questions. I think it's time to give back a little.
I'm the owner of Maxwell Power Services in Marysville, Washington. We are a high performance automotive shop that specializes in Subarus and LS powered GMs. I know that seems like an interesting combination. My roots are deep in Chevy and Poncho performance and I bought my first Subaru in 2000 and fell in love with the platform. I currently have 2 Chevy Trucks (1957, 1995), 5 Subarus and an 05 CTS-V.
The Problem (and the main reason for my post):
Currently we have a Formula Drift car that is an LS1 powered S13 Nissan. The LS1 has mildly ported 243 heads with Lunati Dual Coil Springs, Crane Gold Rockers, LS6 Intake and TB, LS6 MAF, Lunati 60512 cam, GM Performance Lifters, Lunati HD Pushrods, JE Pistons, Scat rods and is fully blueprinted and balanced.
Three events and the engine needed to come out of the car due to some oiling issues (125psi oil pressure). When taking the timing chain out we realized it was already damaged. Only 3 events! The timing chain was the standard dual roller chain that EVERYONE is rebadging as their own. You can see it in the pictures.
It seemed to me that 3 events was a bit too soon. Granted the car spends most of it's time on the rev limiter at close to 7k rpm with NO TIMING CHAIN Dampener or any sort of whip protection. So I started searching for an LS1 dampener... and searching and searching.. The options seemed scarce to extremely poor. So we decided we would make our own.
You can see the unit in the pictures. It's the first rendition and we will be closely monitoring the health of the dampener every couple events. It's our opinion that if it lasts the season in a drift car making 450whp at 7k rpm with rapid acceleration and deceleration then it's going to last everyone else a lot longer.
This first one was handmade with common tools. The final production unit will be cut on our machinist's CNC.
Is this something that would be welcome in the LS community if mass produced?
Thanks for reading,
Dominic Acia
I'm new to this forum, but I've been here quite a few times to get some answers to questions. I think it's time to give back a little.
I'm the owner of Maxwell Power Services in Marysville, Washington. We are a high performance automotive shop that specializes in Subarus and LS powered GMs. I know that seems like an interesting combination. My roots are deep in Chevy and Poncho performance and I bought my first Subaru in 2000 and fell in love with the platform. I currently have 2 Chevy Trucks (1957, 1995), 5 Subarus and an 05 CTS-V.
The Problem (and the main reason for my post):
Currently we have a Formula Drift car that is an LS1 powered S13 Nissan. The LS1 has mildly ported 243 heads with Lunati Dual Coil Springs, Crane Gold Rockers, LS6 Intake and TB, LS6 MAF, Lunati 60512 cam, GM Performance Lifters, Lunati HD Pushrods, JE Pistons, Scat rods and is fully blueprinted and balanced.
Three events and the engine needed to come out of the car due to some oiling issues (125psi oil pressure). When taking the timing chain out we realized it was already damaged. Only 3 events! The timing chain was the standard dual roller chain that EVERYONE is rebadging as their own. You can see it in the pictures.
It seemed to me that 3 events was a bit too soon. Granted the car spends most of it's time on the rev limiter at close to 7k rpm with NO TIMING CHAIN Dampener or any sort of whip protection. So I started searching for an LS1 dampener... and searching and searching.. The options seemed scarce to extremely poor. So we decided we would make our own.
You can see the unit in the pictures. It's the first rendition and we will be closely monitoring the health of the dampener every couple events. It's our opinion that if it lasts the season in a drift car making 450whp at 7k rpm with rapid acceleration and deceleration then it's going to last everyone else a lot longer.
This first one was handmade with common tools. The final production unit will be cut on our machinist's CNC.
Is this something that would be welcome in the LS community if mass produced?
Thanks for reading,
Dominic Acia
06-13-2012, 04:22 PM
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It's a Delrin type of polymer. We have access to a few types. Benefit of it is low low friction. Low friction means that the chain shouldn't chew through it. Obviously only time will tell. Since it isn't as hard as just straight plastic I think it will provide a bit of a cushion effect when the chain slaps into it.
as you can see in the picture, it is very thick so that it completely covers the double roller chains. The GM ones are a little thin and don't quite cover the whole chain.
It's for the first generation blocks that already have the holes tapped in the block with the wider spacing and lower location. For comparison the LS2 damper has closer bolts that are higher up. IIRC the spacing is 2.1 vs 1.7" from hole to hole.
For a block that isn't tapped already, a template would be easy to make. I could supply it with the kits if needed.
We are guessing around $75 each unless I put together a big group buy. I don't want to make my first post all about sales or anything like that. I just want to verify that there is a market. I plan on making a handful for our cars here at the shop. If I can make a bunch more and get some compensation for them, that's great.
I'm really curious to see what my 05 CTS-V has in it. I'm at 84k miles and I'm installing Kooks 1.75" long tube headers and magnaflow exhaust on her. So far with just muffler delete, K&N and my tune she's as 375whp. She based at 337 with muflers. 343 without, then 363 with tune. Then 375 with K&N and retune. I'm hoping for 400 after the headers and exhaust, but I'm not going to hold my breath. My ultimate goal is only 440whp with this car.
Anyway, I have the LS2 buffer and our buffer/dampener here. When I pull the engine to do the clutch and cam I'm going to install whichever fits. I'm pumped to get rid of the dual mass flywheel and put this Kelford cam in her. I didn't go crazy with the cam because I still drive this car a lot.
Again, sale of this is pending some endurance testing. I don't want to put out crap with my name on it.
-Dominic
as you can see in the picture, it is very thick so that it completely covers the double roller chains. The GM ones are a little thin and don't quite cover the whole chain.
It's for the first generation blocks that already have the holes tapped in the block with the wider spacing and lower location. For comparison the LS2 damper has closer bolts that are higher up. IIRC the spacing is 2.1 vs 1.7" from hole to hole.
For a block that isn't tapped already, a template would be easy to make. I could supply it with the kits if needed.
We are guessing around $75 each unless I put together a big group buy. I don't want to make my first post all about sales or anything like that. I just want to verify that there is a market. I plan on making a handful for our cars here at the shop. If I can make a bunch more and get some compensation for them, that's great.
I'm really curious to see what my 05 CTS-V has in it. I'm at 84k miles and I'm installing Kooks 1.75" long tube headers and magnaflow exhaust on her. So far with just muffler delete, K&N and my tune she's as 375whp. She based at 337 with muflers. 343 without, then 363 with tune. Then 375 with K&N and retune. I'm hoping for 400 after the headers and exhaust, but I'm not going to hold my breath. My ultimate goal is only 440whp with this car.
Anyway, I have the LS2 buffer and our buffer/dampener here. When I pull the engine to do the clutch and cam I'm going to install whichever fits. I'm pumped to get rid of the dual mass flywheel and put this Kelford cam in her. I didn't go crazy with the cam because I still drive this car a lot.
Again, sale of this is pending some endurance testing. I don't want to put out crap with my name on it.
-Dominic
06-14-2012, 02:28 AM
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Would have loved this before my dual chain broke, mine doesn't have the damper holes & on repairing the damage it wasn't stripped so it could be safely drilled.
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06-14-2012, 02:23 PM
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http://static.summitracing.com/globa...s-30675600.pdf
Damn, I wish I would have known about this a couple months ago...
Damn, I wish I would have known about this a couple months ago...
06-27-2012, 11:04 PM
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Inspection after a few hours of run time with some sustained rev limiter (10+ seconds at a time) has shone ZERO wear. Not even a visible indication of the timing chain.
So that's good news. We are going to do a couple more events and inspect it again.
So that's good news. We are going to do a couple more events and inspect it again.
06-28-2012, 03:06 AM
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Do some road racing, that will show wear if there's going to be any.
07-05-2012, 09:17 PM
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are you using the stock harmonic balancer? a lot of these timing chain issues come from the use of an aftermarket balancer.
from the road racing forums i belong to, it is well documented that the only 'safe' balancers to use is the stock one and the ATI unit.
from the road racing forums i belong to, it is well documented that the only 'safe' balancers to use is the stock one and the ATI unit.
09-28-2012, 03:17 PM
#17
Some guy on Tech who worked for an Indy car team was modifying the LS2 dampeners to LS1 bolt spacing and re-selling them: https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ener-pics.html
I still haven't used mine since I never had the block drilled & tapped.
However, as Rickenbackerman posted, Trick Flow now has an adapter that lets you run LS2 dampeners without any modification to the block:
TFS-30675600
http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail....t=TFS-30675600
What type of nylon are you using for this? When we had discussions about creating one from scratch, we were pretty careful about finding the proper type of nylon to potentially use.
I still haven't used mine since I never had the block drilled & tapped.
However, as Rickenbackerman posted, Trick Flow now has an adapter that lets you run LS2 dampeners without any modification to the block:
TFS-30675600
http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail....t=TFS-30675600
What type of nylon are you using for this? When we had discussions about creating one from scratch, we were pretty careful about finding the proper type of nylon to potentially use.
Last edited by ZexGX; 09-28-2012 at 03:39 PM.
