Ls1 upgrades
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 69
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From: Edmond,Ok
Ls1 upgrades Today | 08:01 PM
Coza427
I got my 99 ws6 a couple months ago and i finally have some extra money to put into it. I was wanting to know what would be some good options. I was wanting to get a mgw short throw shifter and the f.a.s.t 92mm intake with a f.a.s.t 92mm throttle body. My plans for the car are to get it into the low 11's and high 10's. I will rebuild the engine with a ms4 cam with 111 lsa and upgraded heads and springs, new crank, rods, pistons, a 9in rear end, and sub-frame connectors. I already have pacesetter longtubes with a 3in off-road x pipe and a stage 3 monster clutch. my goal for the car is 550 rwhp naturally aspirated. Then have a 200 shot of nos for it until i can get a pro charger or a twin screw. Im just trying to figure out what will be best for my build.
Coza427
I got my 99 ws6 a couple months ago and i finally have some extra money to put into it. I was wanting to know what would be some good options. I was wanting to get a mgw short throw shifter and the f.a.s.t 92mm intake with a f.a.s.t 92mm throttle body. My plans for the car are to get it into the low 11's and high 10's. I will rebuild the engine with a ms4 cam with 111 lsa and upgraded heads and springs, new crank, rods, pistons, a 9in rear end, and sub-frame connectors. I already have pacesetter longtubes with a 3in off-road x pipe and a stage 3 monster clutch. my goal for the car is 550 rwhp naturally aspirated. Then have a 200 shot of nos for it until i can get a pro charger or a twin screw. Im just trying to figure out what will be best for my build.
Well if 550hp is what you want, might as well go straight to the pro charger because a stock cube ls1 with a big cam and good flowing heads and a fast 102 intake won't even break 500... might dyno 460-480hp to the floor..
Do you wan't a track car or a daily driver? the Ms4 cam is more of a max effort cam and won't make the best power on the street, red light to red light.. On the freeway it should shine best though..
Do you wan't a track car or a daily driver? the Ms4 cam is more of a max effort cam and won't make the best power on the street, red light to red light.. On the freeway it should shine best though..
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: Edmond,Ok
Honestly, I really would like to have a daily driven track car..I dont have to far of a drive to work and im not worried about gas prices. But eventually i would like to make it a track car and have a truck to drive. I have heard and read about the ms4 also i herd that i will have to change springs every 10 to 15k miles is that true? But if i go over 500 hp how big does does my intake, maf and throttle body need to be? From what i read they said a ported 92mm intake has plenty enough air flow.
let me rephrase it, Do you want a quick car or a fast car?
quick is immediate throttle response, and is a street light to street light car... I live in the city and the freeway is always gridlocke'd.. So I would prefer a quick car..
A fast car is something like the MS4 cam, It won't have the snappy throttle kick like a good 228 cam would, but once it gets into the upper RPM's then it will fly.. (freeway speeds)
You won't hit over 500 on a ls1, even with a big cam and heads and a fast...
If I were you, I would get a ls6 intake, keep your stock maf for now. once you go procharged you will be getting rid of it most likely. Stock TB will be fine, alot of people run them to 600-700 hp on turbo setup's..
quick is immediate throttle response, and is a street light to street light car... I live in the city and the freeway is always gridlocke'd.. So I would prefer a quick car..
A fast car is something like the MS4 cam, It won't have the snappy throttle kick like a good 228 cam would, but once it gets into the upper RPM's then it will fly.. (freeway speeds)
You won't hit over 500 on a ls1, even with a big cam and heads and a fast...
If I were you, I would get a ls6 intake, keep your stock maf for now. once you go procharged you will be getting rid of it most likely. Stock TB will be fine, alot of people run them to 600-700 hp on turbo setup's..
its hard to answer because once you build a big H/C nitrous car and then change directions and go Forced Induction, you'll end up changing your whole setup (pistons, rods, cam, etc...)
I would do one or the other that way you save money.
I would do one or the other that way you save money.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: Edmond,Ok
Fast car for sure..id really like to be able to run it almost every friday night at the strip. if rebuild the engine for a nitrous set up how big of a shot can i run? Would i be able to have 600 rwhp doing a direct port set up? Because 460-480 will be fine daily driving it on the street. But id really like to be running in the 11's and 10's at the track. Would it be possible with out boreing it out?
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I can put you a heads cam package together using an off the shelf cam or I can spec a custom cam made specifically for what you want to do with the car.
I'm sure we can get pretty close to 430-440 cam only with a Fast intake through a 6-speed and over 460-475 with a good set of aftermarket heads.
I'm sure we can get pretty close to 430-440 cam only with a Fast intake through a 6-speed and over 460-475 with a good set of aftermarket heads.
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From: PA/MD
You can get 500+ HP out of an ls1, but you would need to rev the hell out of it and probably need a more aggresive can than an ms4....the biggest thing to remember is don't build a street/strip car too much for the strip or it will not be as fun on the road.
I'd do one of two things with the MAF... Leave the stock one, or ditch the MAF all togethervand go with a speed density tune (huge cams favor SD over MAF anyway)
Forged crank
Two ways to go for rods, one is the heavier but stronger H beam rods which will take more force from a larger hit of n20, but put more strain on the rotating assy because of being heavier when spun really fast.
Or I beam rods which aren't quite as strong as H beams, but are lighter so favor super high rpms.
For super high rpms is go with a link bar lifters setup, and forget about the FAST intake in favor of a Holley or Edelbrock tunnel ram or sheetmetal style intake and 90-102mm tb.
And also 4.56 or higher gears.
My 408 is currently spins 8,000 rpms and running a Ford 9" with 4.56 gears through a 3 speed manual...last time it was out (last fall) it had a built 4l60e, 4,000 stall and stock 3.46 gears...I can't wait to test her out this time when done!
I'd do one of two things with the MAF... Leave the stock one, or ditch the MAF all togethervand go with a speed density tune (huge cams favor SD over MAF anyway)
Forged crank
Two ways to go for rods, one is the heavier but stronger H beam rods which will take more force from a larger hit of n20, but put more strain on the rotating assy because of being heavier when spun really fast.
Or I beam rods which aren't quite as strong as H beams, but are lighter so favor super high rpms.
For super high rpms is go with a link bar lifters setup, and forget about the FAST intake in favor of a Holley or Edelbrock tunnel ram or sheetmetal style intake and 90-102mm tb.
And also 4.56 or higher gears.
My 408 is currently spins 8,000 rpms and running a Ford 9" with 4.56 gears through a 3 speed manual...last time it was out (last fall) it had a built 4l60e, 4,000 stall and stock 3.46 gears...I can't wait to test her out this time when done!
You can get 500+ HP out of an ls1, but you would need to rev the hell out of it and probably need a more aggresive can than an ms4....the biggest thing to remember is don't build a street/strip car too much for the strip or it will not be as fun on the road.
I'd do one of two things with the MAF... Leave the stock one, or ditch the MAF all togethervand go with a speed density tune (huge cams favor SD over MAF anyway)
Forged crank
Two ways to go for rods, one is the heavier but stronger H beam rods which will take more force from a larger hit of n20, but put more strain on the rotating assy because of being heavier when spun really fast.
Or I beam rods which aren't quite as strong as H beams, but are lighter so favor super high rpms.
For super high rpms is go with a link bar lifters setup, and forget about the FAST intake in favor of a Holley or Edelbrock tunnel ram or sheetmetal style intake and 90-102mm tb.
And also 4.56 or higher gears.
My 408 is currently spins 8,000 rpms and running a Ford 9" with 4.56 gears through a 3 speed manual...last time it was out (last fall) it had a built 4l60e, 4,000 stall and stock 3.46 gears...I can't wait to test her out this time when done!
I'd do one of two things with the MAF... Leave the stock one, or ditch the MAF all togethervand go with a speed density tune (huge cams favor SD over MAF anyway)
Forged crank
Two ways to go for rods, one is the heavier but stronger H beam rods which will take more force from a larger hit of n20, but put more strain on the rotating assy because of being heavier when spun really fast.
Or I beam rods which aren't quite as strong as H beams, but are lighter so favor super high rpms.
For super high rpms is go with a link bar lifters setup, and forget about the FAST intake in favor of a Holley or Edelbrock tunnel ram or sheetmetal style intake and 90-102mm tb.
And also 4.56 or higher gears.
My 408 is currently spins 8,000 rpms and running a Ford 9" with 4.56 gears through a 3 speed manual...last time it was out (last fall) it had a built 4l60e, 4,000 stall and stock 3.46 gears...I can't wait to test her out this time when done!
It also wouldn't take a very aggressive cam at all if the entire "package" is set-up right from static compression, dynamic compression, camshaft lobes, camshaft specs, the cylinder heads used, port program used on those cylinder heads and intake manifold.
I agree with the SD though and ditching the MAF.
I remember reading Tony Mamo's post from a while back and nearly all of his 475rwhp+ builds utilized cams in the mid 230 to high 230 range in duration and were no bigger than a MS3 cam.
Look at it as a package as that is what it will take to get a 346 to 460rwhp which is what most 346's with ported stock castings and off the shelf cams normally make.
Last edited by Fbodyjunkie06; Jul 31, 2012 at 09:43 AM.
TECH Addict
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From: PA/MD
Where are you getting this information from that I-beams are weaker than H-beams? That is not the case as I-beams are 9/10 rated for and will handle more power than a H-beam.
It also wouldn't take a very aggressive cam at all if the entire "package" is set-up right from static compression, dynamic compression, camshaft lobes, camshaft specs, the cylinder heads used, port program used on those cylinder heads and intake manifold.
I agree with the SD though and ditching the MAF.
I remember reading Tony Mamo's post from a while back and nearly all of his 475rwhp+ builds utilized cams in the mid 230 to high 230 range in duration and were no bigger than a MS3 cam.
Look at it as a package as that is what it will take to get a 346 to 460rwhp which is most 346's with ported stock castings and off the shelf cams normally make.
It also wouldn't take a very aggressive cam at all if the entire "package" is set-up right from static compression, dynamic compression, camshaft lobes, camshaft specs, the cylinder heads used, port program used on those cylinder heads and intake manifold.
I agree with the SD though and ditching the MAF.
I remember reading Tony Mamo's post from a while back and nearly all of his 475rwhp+ builds utilized cams in the mid 230 to high 230 range in duration and were no bigger than a MS3 cam.
Look at it as a package as that is what it will take to get a 346 to 460rwhp which is most 346's with ported stock castings and off the shelf cams normally make.
TECH Addict
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,481
Likes: 5
From: PA/MD
I have seen the builds Tony Mamo has done and none of them needed to be spun past 7000rpm to make the power that they did.
Look up his 500rwhp builds he has done before and look at the dyno graphs. I think you will be really surprised.
Am I saying it's easy to make 500rwhp N/A H/C/I? Not at all it is FAR from easy, but with the right parts and careful cam selection along with a set of great aftermarket heads like AFR's or TFS heads it can be done and it can even be done with a Fast 102 style intake manifold and not a single plane!
Don't get too hung up on HP #'s
theres alot of guys running low 11's with 420-440 hp...
It's all how you setup up your rear end gear ratio, what tires, what tranny, what driver? lol
The engine is only one aspect of how the car will perform, numbers dont mean a whole lot when considering the rest.
theres alot of guys running low 11's with 420-440 hp...
It's all how you setup up your rear end gear ratio, what tires, what tranny, what driver? lol
The engine is only one aspect of how the car will perform, numbers dont mean a whole lot when considering the rest.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: Edmond,Ok
So a 364, cam, heads, stage 2 t56, 4.11 gears, a 9" rear end and a lsx intake would be good? , i currently have nitto extreme drag 345/35/18 for my rear tires and it cut a second off my previous time. What would be the best heads,pistons, crank, and rods be? Or is that just personal preference.
OP why are you so set on 500whp? There have been people who have done it with a stock cube ls1 but even an ls2 thats making 500whp will be lazy down low. You could dump a lot of money into making an ls1 or 6.0 motor make 500whp and you'll run low 11's but the motor will favor high rpms and generally wont be as street friendly....
The other option is invest in a good cam and head combo on your ls1. AFR heads, FAST 102, and a good custom cam will make 460ish through an m6 but will have an awesome torque curve. Then take the extra money that you saved from the engine swap and invest it in suspension and other areas to make the car launch better. In the end you will have an engine that is more streetable than a high strung one revving to the moon to make power and it will still run low 11's with a good suspension being setup right.
The other option is invest in a good cam and head combo on your ls1. AFR heads, FAST 102, and a good custom cam will make 460ish through an m6 but will have an awesome torque curve. Then take the extra money that you saved from the engine swap and invest it in suspension and other areas to make the car launch better. In the end you will have an engine that is more streetable than a high strung one revving to the moon to make power and it will still run low 11's with a good suspension being setup right.
The other option is invest in a good cam and head combo on your ls1. AFR heads, FAST 102, and a good custom cam will make 460ish through an m6 but will have an awesome torque curve. Then take the extra money that you saved from the engine swap and invest it in suspension and other areas to make the car launch better. In the end you will have an engine that is more streetable than a high strung one revving to the moon to make power and it will still run low 11's with a good suspension being setup right.
Mine made 405rwhp unlocked through a 6000rpm stall and went 6.40's all day long at 2980 pound race weight, but mainly it was because the stall was matched perfectly to the car's power output, rear gear was correct for the application, and the suspension just flat out works.
These are areas that are more important than rwhp numbers for sure.