Ready to pull the trigger on mods, not so sure about labor
Ready to pull the trigger on mods, not so sure about labor Like the title says, I'm ready to pull the trigger on upgrading my 2002 105k mile DD t/a. I originally wanted to go for a simple cam swap, which eventually turned into much more. I've settled on 243 heads,and a healthy but completely DD friendly cam (Torquer v2 too much of a gas mileage hit for a DD?). I want to lower the risk of breaking anything as much as possible, so I would like to build a bottom end along with the H/C swap. I figured I would go with upgraded internals and ARP bolts/rods/studs. I guess I would also need the block machined and what not. I'm in no way confident in doing the engine teardown/build myself. I've installed headers and a few other easy parts, but nothing this big. I would really like to get a ballpark for just the labor on a job like this. I don't want to take my car to the most expensive shop around, but I don't want shadetree mechanics or a shop that has never done a job like this before. I would take my car to a reputable shop, or a seasoned member who has a build thread or some proof of knowledge. Obviously the price of an individual will be lower than a shop and take a longer amount of time. I just have no idea of pricing for any of the labor. I also need a recommendation and ballpark for the machine work.
Thanks for bearing with me through this long post guys, I don't know much about working on cars but I love them more than most!
I'm located between Charlotte NC and Columbia SC, and I'm not afraid to do a little traveling.
Thanks for bearing with me through this long post guys, I don't know much about working on cars but I love them more than most!
I'm located between Charlotte NC and Columbia SC, and I'm not afraid to do a little traveling.
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
To be honest with you - 105k miles isn't much. There is no need whatsoever to build the.bottom end if you are just wanting a solid H/C/I setup. My advice: if you are worried about longevity, have a leakdown / compression test done to check the health of your bottom end. If everything looks good I wouldn't hesitate to start the H/C swap. Just make sure you do all the supporting mods, I would recommend new fuel injectors, comp cams trunion upgrade for your rockers, oil pump (new o-ring), new timing chain, etc
This job really isn't bad at all. If you want to save a few thousand then do it yourself. Good luck man.
This job really isn't bad at all. If you want to save a few thousand then do it yourself. Good luck man.
Thanks for the advice. I did forget to mention that the car is already running a 150 shot. I would like to continue to use the shot after the H/C build. Would I really be ok @ 105k without a bottom end build? I run this car pretty hard. Multiple wot pulls everyday.
Any other suggestion from anyone?
Any other suggestion from anyone?
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
Thanks for the advice. I did forget to mention that the car is already running a 150 shot. I would like to continue to use the shot after the H/C build. Would I really be ok @ 105k without a bottom end build? I run this car pretty hard. Multiple wot pulls everyday.
Any other suggestion from anyone?
Any other suggestion from anyone?
Don't get me wrong though - it's always a good idea to build the bottom end. It allows for room to grow in the future and more leniency with your setup. If you have the money to do so, then build yourself a stronger bottom end. But if you don't have that kind of cash, I wouldn't hesitate to run the H/C setup + the 150 shot. There are many who run that way on here and been doing so for years.
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Don't be afraid to do this on your own. I am currently wrapping up my first ever H/C/I and its not that bad. Hardest thing for me was motor mounts. Lots of good people on here to help out. Use the ls1howto website as well. Even if you have to buy tools to get the job done will still save a lot of cash. One thing I didn't do was degree the cam in, not sure how difficult that is or if really needed but im sure someone on here could walk you through it
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
I agree that if the motor is healthy, I wouldn't redo the bottom end. It can handle the 150 shot with heads and cam, as long as the tune is good.
I'd also think that if you do have the block work done, you'd be better off having a shop remove the motor, give you the block, then you take it to a machine shop of your choice, unless you know the shop has a full fledged machine shop, which is rare in the Carolinas from what I see. Most may give you a quote, but then they just take it to a machine shop and add a couple hundred bucks for some profit.
If you're going to do upgraded internals, I don't see the reason not to increase displacement. While there is no "power" made in the bottom end of the motor alone, with added displacement, you'll make a bit more torque, and can make the same power at a lower rpm. You can then run a bigger cam, make more power, but keep the same street manners.
PM me if you'd like more info on a great shop to do the work. They've done LS1 and LT1 swaps in RX7s, and they did my cam only LT1 that ran 113 in a 3700LB car.
I'd also think that if you do have the block work done, you'd be better off having a shop remove the motor, give you the block, then you take it to a machine shop of your choice, unless you know the shop has a full fledged machine shop, which is rare in the Carolinas from what I see. Most may give you a quote, but then they just take it to a machine shop and add a couple hundred bucks for some profit.
If you're going to do upgraded internals, I don't see the reason not to increase displacement. While there is no "power" made in the bottom end of the motor alone, with added displacement, you'll make a bit more torque, and can make the same power at a lower rpm. You can then run a bigger cam, make more power, but keep the same street manners.
PM me if you'd like more info on a great shop to do the work. They've done LS1 and LT1 swaps in RX7s, and they did my cam only LT1 that ran 113 in a 3700LB car.
How much nitrous has been through the motor already? While your bottom end is probably fine a 150 shot WILL wear your rod bearings at a faster rate. I rebuilt the engine in my 98 when I did heads/cam and the rod bearings showed the abuse from the nitrous. The upper portion of the rod bearings were worn considerably compared to the rest. That engine only had 30k on it when the rebuild happened. Probably had 30 or so bottles of nitrous through it by then. Not saying you need to rebuild, but I think your engine will last much longer if you go ahead and rebuild it now. No matter what tune you have, the only way to reduce the wear on the bearings is using a progressive controller for the nitrous to lessen the initial hit.
I would tear it down and check yhe cyl bores. If they still look good, then just do new rings and bearings at the very least. If you were planning on an all forged setup, I would consider going with a 6 liter iron block with a stroker setup for a 408. The cost of the rotating assembly is nearly the same and you woul probably be changing all of the timing chain and oil pump anyway. So there wouldn't really be anything new to replace except for the block. If you were just replacing pistons, then I would stick to your original plan.
I would tear it down and check yhe cyl bores. If they still look good, then just do new rings and bearings at the very least. If you were planning on an all forged setup, I would consider going with a 6 liter iron block with a stroker setup for a 408. The cost of the rotating assembly is nearly the same and you woul probably be changing all of the timing chain and oil pump anyway. So there wouldn't really be anything new to replace except for the block. If you were just replacing pistons, then I would stick to your original plan.
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Thanks for all the help so far guys. The car has only had 1 full bottle and about 1/4 of the current ran through it. I've been scared to use it because of my mileage. If I did a h/c swap without a rebuild, at what mileage would be a good time to rebuild down the road? Only reason I ask is because I bought the car in march with 94k on it to use as my dd (long commute). It now has 105k on it in august, so the miles will rack up fast on the h/c swap. I'm thinking about doing away with the nitrous all together as I don't really need it. The h/c will be plenty fast for all the mustangs and 5th gens I seem to run into everyday on my commute. I'm still looking for ballpark figures on labor for the rebuild if it should be done because of how fast I rack up miles. I could probably do it myself, but between work and my family, it would take me FOREVER to do. My truck is Colorado currently, so I would have to DD my gtr ~400 miles a week until I got the job done. Either that or fly to Colorado, drive my truck home, and spend ridiculous money on gas (12ish mpg due to 38" tires).
I like the idea about changing the rings and bearings, I don't think I would need a forged bottom end for ~440rwhp if I do away with the nitrous. If so, is that a quick and much less expensive job? I really don't want to do the work myself with the ridiculous workload I've had lately.
I like the idea about changing the rings and bearings, I don't think I would need a forged bottom end for ~440rwhp if I do away with the nitrous. If so, is that a quick and much less expensive job? I really don't want to do the work myself with the ridiculous workload I've had lately.
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I hate to say it but sometimes leaving the factory bottom end alone is better than going into the bottom end even if you do upgrade the rod bolts...
But def think about doing it yourself all you have to do is go slow and be very thorough even if it days a few days (your back will be hurting from all the leaning over lol)...it's def a thought just bc the $ you save can go towards more mOds...as cheap as ls1 short licks are now a days I wouldnt worry about the bottom as plenty of ppl have put some serious power to factory bottom ends...
Anyway good luck with the build, the power increases are like drugs! You will want more lol
But def think about doing it yourself all you have to do is go slow and be very thorough even if it days a few days (your back will be hurting from all the leaning over lol)...it's def a thought just bc the $ you save can go towards more mOds...as cheap as ls1 short licks are now a days I wouldnt worry about the bottom as plenty of ppl have put some serious power to factory bottom ends...
Anyway good luck with the build, the power increases are like drugs! You will want more lol
