Rod Bolts
The crack method used at the factory to separate the rod from the end creates a unique pattern on both sides of the break. So they'll match back together one way and only one way. Damage caused by anything else is just that, damage.
I don't see how changing bolts would affect it either. They are separate pieces and rod bolts are just fasteners. Fasteners shouldn't mess with what they are fastening unless the parts are warped or torque is off.
It's not that simple. Just because it is a cracked cap design, does not mean it has no room to shift in any direction.
Different fasteners with different clamp loads, tensile strength...etc will move the caps, regardless of design. Caps don't just go out of round for the hell of it, obviously movement on the parting line is the only thing that can cause that.
Different fasteners with different clamp loads, tensile strength...etc will move the caps, regardless of design. Caps don't just go out of round for the hell of it, obviously movement on the parting line is the only thing that can cause that.
In My experience getting the rod caps back to the exact same way as before removed is fairly easy as long as You don't have any foreign material and You don't ding any part of the rod or cap and You use You're eyes to inspect them before and after . If You don't have natural mechanics and physics aptitude and decent eyes I would not mess with it ,,,,,but if You do and You're careful You should have no issues .
I do not understand this.
What difference would it make if using ARP vs. stock or katech? On a basic level a grade 8 bolt is a grade 8 bolt, right?or whatever grade is used for rod bolts. We are not talking about torquing to yield so there should not be any measurable amount of stretch. The torque spec is the same isn't it? If you warped the bore wouldn't they be over torqued? So why would the rods need to be resized to change to higher quality bolts??
Yea sure if we are doing a textbook rebuild yes we SHOULD resize the rods. He is wanting to only change the bolts.
Please elaborate with some facts.
Thanks
What difference would it make if using ARP vs. stock or katech? On a basic level a grade 8 bolt is a grade 8 bolt, right?or whatever grade is used for rod bolts. We are not talking about torquing to yield so there should not be any measurable amount of stretch. The torque spec is the same isn't it? If you warped the bore wouldn't they be over torqued? So why would the rods need to be resized to change to higher quality bolts??
Yea sure if we are doing a textbook rebuild yes we SHOULD resize the rods. He is wanting to only change the bolts.
Please elaborate with some facts.
Thanks
There is no failures from using katech bolts while there are many failures shortly after installing arps. Now there are people who use arps without issue but is that chance worth the $100 price difference between katechs and arps? To me its not...
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I rebuilt my L33 with cracked capped rods & used ARP rod bolts & no resizing...5,000 + miles later its still running strong & I doubt I will have any problems if its gone this long.
The caps can only go one way. I was a amazed at the cracks/breaks on some of my rods.
The caps can only go one way. I was a amazed at the cracks/breaks on some of my rods.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2012
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From: Petaluma California
My plan is to put it in my sons 67 Camaro. It will be all stock at this point and a summer daily driver. I'm hoping to give it a good once over and run it. We'll get the combo instaIled and decide where to go from there. I was going to change the oil pump and check the old one to (hopefully) find the failure.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2012
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From: Petaluma California
It's on my engine stand so I can easily check all of the bearings.
Greg
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8
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From: Petaluma California
I had a 1970 SS454 Monte Carlo. It wasn't 600 hp (only 500) but it was still like using a sledge hammer to install trim.
Greg
Cool! What colors?
About your engine, I suggest while you have it on the stand, you do go through it. New rings, bearings, oil pump, gaskets, perhaps have the heads gone through and a cam/springs kit. Remember some fasteners are TTY and the head bolt holes need to the empty & dry.
About your engine, I suggest while you have it on the stand, you do go through it. New rings, bearings, oil pump, gaskets, perhaps have the heads gone through and a cam/springs kit. Remember some fasteners are TTY and the head bolt holes need to the empty & dry.
Bww , in My experience thus developing My opinion the stronger bolts cause out of round big ends by way of squishing the caps a little more but the parting lines because of the cracked cap design stay the same on 2 of the 3 dimensions ,,,,,,,with respect to the engine block side to side and front to back . The purpose of the honing is to bring the big ends to round again .
I fabricated some tools to hone My rods so I spent alot of time studying closely the parting lines and I can say in all honesty I can see a .001-.002" difference because I'm comparing the rod to the cap when They are together . Take a drill bit then find 1 that is a cpl thous bigger or smaller and compare side by side ,,,,,,,,,You should be able to "easily" see the difference ,,,,,,,,,
I fabricated some tools to hone My rods so I spent alot of time studying closely the parting lines and I can say in all honesty I can see a .001-.002" difference because I'm comparing the rod to the cap when They are together . Take a drill bit then find 1 that is a cpl thous bigger or smaller and compare side by side ,,,,,,,,,You should be able to "easily" see the difference ,,,,,,,,,
It's not that simple. Just because it is a cracked cap design, does not mean it has no room to shift in any direction.
Different fasteners with different clamp loads, tensile strength...etc will move the caps, regardless of design. Caps don't just go out of round for the hell of it, obviously movement on the parting line is the only thing that can cause that.
Different fasteners with different clamp loads, tensile strength...etc will move the caps, regardless of design. Caps don't just go out of round for the hell of it, obviously movement on the parting line is the only thing that can cause that.
Gotta keep in mind though that improper torque, wrong torque down pattern, fasteners of much harder metal, fasteners of much softer metal, bearing clearances, and crank wobble can all throw it OOR. Some take forever and others don't, depends on what happened inside the motor when it was running.
Hell, I bought a motor with 6 of 8 rods bent with a slight S bend (don't hit nitrous without any jets
). It was enough to knock like hell and go very slightly OOR but the bearings looked fine to the naked eye. The rods looked fine until a close look too.OP: you're on the right track. While the engine is on a stand you might as well go through the whole thing. Car will be killer when you're done with it. Throw some disc brakes and decent suspension on for a panty dropping resto-mod!
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8
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From: Petaluma California
Cool! What colors?
About your engine, I suggest while you have it on the stand, you do go through it. New rings, bearings, oil pump, gaskets, perhaps have the heads gone through and a cam/springs kit. Remember some fasteners are TTY and the head bolt holes need to the empty & dry.
About your engine, I suggest while you have it on the stand, you do go through it. New rings, bearings, oil pump, gaskets, perhaps have the heads gone through and a cam/springs kit. Remember some fasteners are TTY and the head bolt holes need to the empty & dry.
I plan on checking all of the rod and main bearings and depending on what I find I will do rings, bearings etc.
I'm definitely doing oil pump and gaskets.
At this point I'm hoping to keep it low budget.
I have a feeling that once I get into it I'll know how far I'll have to go
you can change the rod bolts while leaving the rod and piston in the block.just do 1 rod bolt at a time.get some kaltech rod bolts ,these seem to be the only rod bolt that dose not cause any out of round with the big end of the connecting rod.these are cracked rods and it seems that removing a rod cap is not a good idea.
