head/head gasket problem
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head/head gasket problem i just recently installed a 6.0 in the trans am. well i did a oil change right after the install and the drain plug had quite a bit of metal shaving on it. i was assuming it was from the heads and or a little remaining in the drain pan since i spun a bearing in the 5.7.
i did another oil change a few days later and there was still stuff (not a lot, but some) on the drain plug but no actual metal shavings (but when i wiped it on a clean white cloth it was silver) and the oil was pretty milky and had a ring of coolant around the outside of the pan.
i went ahead and put new oil and another filter on it and plan on checking it tomorrow or the day after. but once i got to thinking...i realized that when i installed the heads, i torqued them down to 5.7l specs (factory bolts) instead of the 6.0l specs. the torque is a significant difference.
5.7L:
22ftlbs
90 degrees
90 degrees
6.0:
88ftlbs
90 degrees
90 degrees
90 degrees
so my question is; should i just tighten the current bolts more? install new gaskets and bolts and actually torque correctly? the engine still sounds good and no unusual noises so im hoping the bearings are okay, and i can just fix this issue and call it a day.
i did another oil change a few days later and there was still stuff (not a lot, but some) on the drain plug but no actual metal shavings (but when i wiped it on a clean white cloth it was silver) and the oil was pretty milky and had a ring of coolant around the outside of the pan.
i went ahead and put new oil and another filter on it and plan on checking it tomorrow or the day after. but once i got to thinking...i realized that when i installed the heads, i torqued them down to 5.7l specs (factory bolts) instead of the 6.0l specs. the torque is a significant difference.
5.7L:
22ftlbs
90 degrees
90 degrees
6.0:
88ftlbs
90 degrees
90 degrees
90 degrees
so my question is; should i just tighten the current bolts more? install new gaskets and bolts and actually torque correctly? the engine still sounds good and no unusual noises so im hoping the bearings are okay, and i can just fix this issue and call it a day.
At this point try it, youve clearly got leakage one way or another.
One thing to npte and im sure you know this as well but there was a change in head bolts from long to short on later models.
One thing to npte and im sure you know this as well but there was a change in head bolts from long to short on later models.
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yup. i had arp studs on the 5.7 then realized they weren't the same so i called up oreilys and ordered a factory set of bolts for the 05 6.0
you did clean out your oil pan didn't you? If theres that much metal in your oil and you cleaned the pan that 6.0 is hurt. find someone with a filter cutter and have them cut your oil filters open
Are you sure its coolant and not water. Since you are up north and the weather has cooled, if you aren't getting the motor hot the liquid you see may be water.
Did you use GM gaskets? They are pretty forgiving. I think if I were in your shoes I would try a new bolt set and remove the old bolts one at a time installing the new ones to the correct torque and rotation values without removing the heads or gaskets.
Did you use GM gaskets? They are pretty forgiving. I think if I were in your shoes I would try a new bolt set and remove the old bolts one at a time installing the new ones to the correct torque and rotation values without removing the heads or gaskets.
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it's not water, i never take the car for short drives, the car always gets up to temp.
i did clean out the pan, but im sure i might have missed a little bit, and i didn't clean out the heads, i just put them on the 6.0.
and i used GM mls gaskets.
any other ideas/opinions? im going to change the oil again today and i will post up the results.
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I don't see why the torque specs would vary from a 5.7 to a 6.0, other than maybe the block material from aluminum to iron. The bolt material is the same, and they are designed to stretch. Adding more torque/angle could break them. At least on my iron 5.3 I used the LS1 specs which is 22ft-lbs+90+50/90 on the shorter/longer bolts.
I would look elsewhere for your issue. Have you inspected for a cracked block? Might be worth a shot to get under there with a flashlight and spend 20 minutes or so looking.
I would look elsewhere for your issue. Have you inspected for a cracked block? Might be worth a shot to get under there with a flashlight and spend 20 minutes or so looking.
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Verdad Gallardo Did you clean the BOLT HOLES?
I take a headbolt, grind the threads off two sides and use that to clean the gunk out of the holes followed by a good degreasing, then blown out with compressed air to make sure any dirt/grime/fluid is out.
If not, you could have cracked your block along one of the bolt holes.
I take a headbolt, grind the threads off two sides and use that to clean the gunk out of the holes followed by a good degreasing, then blown out with compressed air to make sure any dirt/grime/fluid is out.
If not, you could have cracked your block along one of the bolt holes.
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called gm and verified the torque specs which were 22ftlb+ 90* + 70*.
so my torque isn't the issue.
i did clean the holes. first i used compressed air (air compressor), then a copper brush (gun cleaning kit), then compressed air, then a "chaser" (factory bolt cut on each side), then compressed air.
so my torque isn't the issue.
i did clean the holes. first i used compressed air (air compressor), then a copper brush (gun cleaning kit), then compressed air, then a "chaser" (factory bolt cut on each side), then compressed air.
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okay, so i drained a little bit of oil just now. there is absolutely nothing on the drain plug...which is obviously good.
but there still seems to be something in the oil. my coolant level has not decreased at all though. and if i remove the oil cap it has a strong stench of gas. i drained only a little bit of oil for a sample and it also smells like gas.
here are the pics...any help is appreciated as i try to figure this out.
in this picture it appears there is a green ring around the oil, but i can't tell if it is actually a green ring, or if it's just the black pan and the flash making it appear that way. when i run my finger through it it leaves a slight trail.
and here are a couple of pics in a clear bowl. i caught this in the bowl as soon as i pulled the plug. then i moved the bowl and caught some more in the black pan.
i tried going to oreilys and seeing if that had some oil test strips but they dont...
but there still seems to be something in the oil. my coolant level has not decreased at all though. and if i remove the oil cap it has a strong stench of gas. i drained only a little bit of oil for a sample and it also smells like gas.
here are the pics...any help is appreciated as i try to figure this out.
in this picture it appears there is a green ring around the oil, but i can't tell if it is actually a green ring, or if it's just the black pan and the flash making it appear that way. when i run my finger through it it leaves a slight trail.
and here are a couple of pics in a clear bowl. i caught this in the bowl as soon as i pulled the plug. then i moved the bowl and caught some more in the black pan.
i tried going to oreilys and seeing if that had some oil test strips but they dont...
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i went ahead and ordered a oil test via blackstone labs, but that takes a little while to receive...
i pulled all of the plugs and they all looked like this one, besides one, there was 1 that had a little bit of brown on it.
also, while pulling the plugs, i found a little puddle of coolant on each side of my pipe that goes under the intake.
also did a compression test. i tested 6 of the 8 cylinders. the lowest reading i got was 187 and the highest of 195. doesn't that prove that the gaskets are good and no cracks in the surface...? :dunno:
i pulled all of the plugs and they all looked like this one, besides one, there was 1 that had a little bit of brown on it.
also, while pulling the plugs, i found a little puddle of coolant on each side of my pipe that goes under the intake.
also did a compression test. i tested 6 of the 8 cylinders. the lowest reading i got was 187 and the highest of 195. doesn't that prove that the gaskets are good and no cracks in the surface...? :dunno:
Last edited by ldyzluvdis06; Nov 29, 2012 at 08:49 PM.
I really cant decipher anything from the pictures. If the coolant level is not dropping, its doesn't support the theory of coolant in the oil. I agree with a post above. When it gets cold out side, condensation does build up in the crank case. My Dodge Durango in Alaska would even build up yellow sludge on the cap. I think the only way to get gas in their is if a cylinder wasn't firing.
Did you clean the BOLT HOLES?
I take a headbolt, grind the threads off two sides and use that to clean the gunk out of the holes followed by a good degreasing, then blown out with compressed air to make sure any dirt/grime/fluid is out.
If not, you could have cracked your block along one of the bolt holes.
I take a headbolt, grind the threads off two sides and use that to clean the gunk out of the holes followed by a good degreasing, then blown out with compressed air to make sure any dirt/grime/fluid is out.
If not, you could have cracked your block along one of the bolt holes.
I really cant decipher anything from the pictures. If the coolant level is not dropping, its doesn't support the theory of coolant in the oil. I agree with a post above. When it gets cold out side, condensation does build up in the crank case. My Dodge Durango in Alaska would even build up yellow sludge on the cap. I think the only way to get gas in their is if a cylinder wasn't firing.
If the oil smells like fuel then you are probably getting fuel in the oil, pretty simple. Could be a stuck injector or something. The one odd spark plug may support this theory. Do you have the means to measure fuel pressure? You could see if it's dropping too fast.
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but back to the original problem...
i do have a fuel pressure gauge but my sending unit went out. so i went ahead and ordered a new one tonight so will be watching the mail for it to come in to test the fuel pressure
He isn't the only one living on cold weather here. I agree that condensation can happen, but his situation sounds far more serious.
If the oil smells like fuel then you are probably getting fuel in the oil, pretty simple. Could be a stuck injector or something. The one odd spark plug may support this theory. Do you have the means to measure fuel pressure? You could see if it's dropping too fast.
If the oil smells like fuel then you are probably getting fuel in the oil, pretty simple. Could be a stuck injector or something. The one odd spark plug may support this theory. Do you have the means to measure fuel pressure? You could see if it's dropping too fast.
