FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

Well since Jake scared the **** out of me, I've opted out of the Cam. The guy was a trooper and worked with me.

So now that we know I want to run the TEA Stage 2 LS6 heads (63cc) and a .040" gasket. What cam will bring this package together?

(I want to run the .040" for the compression bump. Is this a good idea? or should I run the .051" and broaden my options maybe?)

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

No the way the formula works (and it's just a swag really) is that the clearance formula provides you with total clearance in inches at TDC. Comp lists the lobe lift values at 106 and 110 ICL. You can do some fuzzy math on that to come up with a 109 ICL. The valve lift at TDC is listed in the lobe master catalog. You multiply your rocker ratio (and remember, this isn't lift, it's lobe lift @ TDC, which helps you understand clearance). With the formula for lobe lift @ TDC, you're at .1173" needed to clear the pistons.

The formula for available clearance @ TDC for the heads shows you how much room you have. If that value is less (and it includes the minimum clearance spec) you have to flycut to make room for the camshaft. Of course, you'd measure, but if you're buying parts and mixing and matching together, this helps you eliminate combos that won't work.

The problem with the TEA Stage 2 heads, and really any ported stockers with larger valves is you start out with a much smaller "freedrop." Freedrop on LS6 heads are around .150" and the 2.04" valve in the LS6 takes that down to around .120" and the TFS are about .160" at 64cc and AFR are like .160" at 66cc. So you can use that value to calculate the general ballpark.

I'm in no way advocating that this is the end-all-be-all. It's not. It just helps you guess how close you'd be. Can you run .030"? Sure. If you over rev or miss a shift you'll kiss the pistons with the valves and maybe they'll survive. Maybe they won't.

A lot of the big cams like the T-Rex only have .020" clearance. It's just what it is.

And the .080" number comes from various sources and the .060" number comes from TSP and Livernois. They don't like to run less than that on combos they install and tune.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

I appreciate the heads up. I would rather be safe than sorry by any means. So .030" is way to close for me. I'd like to get a cam that will work with what I got. (I.E the TEA Stage 2 63cc heads)

Edit: With out having to fly-cut or anything. (Also when I said you scared the **** out of me, I was just trying to be funny, no pun intended.)

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

I know. Good luck either way. Like I said something like an XFI/XE-R 224/230 113+1 would work with them and GM MLS gaskets. Talk to Mike to verify or see what he says. LSL lobes can also be had in smaller increments now too... so maybe a 225/229 113+1 LSL would work fine or even a 227/231.

As you know, the problem as you start to get bigger on the cams, you need to either up the compression or advance the cam to keep dynamic compression up and keep the IVC from being too late and creating a "peaky" cam. Not wanting to flycut (and I don't blame you) and having a head without much clearance means you're limited to a fairly mild cam.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

I have updated the original post.

With the help from JakeFusion and Martin@Tick, I feel confident in the choice we pulled together. I will still verify PTV clearance using the clay method but I will be happy with the clearances that have been spec'd out using the formula.

I also appreciate all the comments and suggestions from the other members as well.

I cannot wait to start tearing into the build. I'm trying to at least get most of the parts on order and/or delivered before I go all out with tear down. (It's cold as hell in the mornings on a bike, and my wife hates when I drive the truck and leave her stranded..lol)

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

So what cam are you going with..? IMO, go with the cam you want, and if you need to flycut, so be it; then flycut! You start making all these changes just to avoid fly cutting and you'll probably not end up with what you really want.

Think about it.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

99BluZ28- I appreciate the suggetions but I think this is where I want to be, I'm more than happy to hear your thoughts on this Cam.

Edit: (12/26/12) Heads/Cam – I have changed my mind so many times but due to budget, I've purchased a set of TEA Stage 2 LS6 (799 Castings) milled to 63cc. These heads have made the cam selection very tight due to the milling, larger valves (2.04I and 1.575E), and me trying to avoid fly cutting. I have have received a vast amount of knowledge from JakeFusion and Martin @ Tick. I have come up from the two of them a cam choice of 227/235 .614" .621" 110+3 on a 107ICL with 10.5* of over lap. I can't recall the exact lobes that are being used but if you guys want to know I can find that out. The tolerances are still going to be tight, but good enough for me. My static compression with a .051 stock head gasket is 10.84:1 and dynamic compression is 8.58:1.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Make sure you measure. I'm guessing you'll end up needing to flycut.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

Only time will tell.. and time marches on. I can only measure and go from there.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

This is the correct logic of thinking! I agree

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

As long as you're happy with your choice, then great; go for it.

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

PTV is a well kept secret in this industry, and shops tell guys all the time "You'll be fine, don't worry about it, you've got x amount of clearance." When in all reality you've got much less than what was told to the customer.

With the cam that I have chosen for James it's looking like he'll have between .051"-.055" of clearance. Is that ideal by any means? Not really, will it work? Yes and we've unfortunately done much tighter by customer request because they didn't want to fly-cut.

That said, those figures are with LSL lobes, if James wants more clearance we could go to a milder lobe with less tappet lift@TDC which would free up some more space, but take away idle quality and drivability by creating more overlap@.006".

Fly-cutting would be the best bet, but some guys just don't have that option or luxury.

These are just my words of wisdom take them how you want.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

It's not that hard to flycut.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

The point isn't that its to hard or to expensive for me to add into the budget, the point is that I have seen so many builds with great success with tighter tolerances than mine. (I.E Smaller combustion chambers, bigger cams, smaller gaskets, etc) and it blows my mind how on my build I'll have to flycut. Should I fly cut? I'm going to measure and if I'm less than expected I will flycut. I have to measure first. The tolerances that Martin and I think I will be at are tolerable for me. But I will only know once I have measured.

At first I was against fly cutting, but once I found out it isn't as tough as it sounds I changed my mind. Do I still want to avoid it? Yes. I've talked to many different people about it, but only time will tell.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

I have ordered all the stuff I have listed minus a few specialty tools, Intake and TB, and a catch can. The rest is on its way, and I'm so ready to get it going!

MertezWS6

iTrader: (8)

Nice looking build so far FEAR LS, i'm doing a very similar build this winter with my 00 WS6 M6 so I would definitely like to see your end results.

Jake I might have to ask you for some advice in the future since you seem to have a good understanding of some of the numbers going on in my head. BTW I'm a Nissan mechanic as far as my knowledge goes if you ever come across a timing chain noise in the near future lol

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Haha. I'm getting closer and closer... at 80k on my Nissan... I have worked on it more than my T/A to be honest. It's actually easier to work on despite being FWD. I know, that's blasphemous. But everything is packed in so close in the LS1, it's actually easier to get around the VQ35 most days.

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

Blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

Thanks man! Good luck with your build.





Well I've made a little progress in a couple hours worth of work. I could of pulled the heads tonight but the wifey was ready for me to finish up for the evening.

Looking forward to all the new packages arriving! Still in need of the Fast 92/92 setup, looking for that good deal.

I posted a couple pics of the TEA Stage II heads. I can post their flow results if anyone is curious. I will say I was impressed with the numbers, comparing them to other name brand head companies, they hold their own!

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

James you're assembling a very potent little set up. I think you're going to be very surprised at the results.