About to purchase H/C/I... Any thoughts before decision is made
12-10-2012, 08:42 PM
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About to purchase H/C/I... Any thoughts before decision is made Just like the title states, I'm about to purchase a Head/Cam/Intake "package" to put on my 00' Trans Am (6 speed). Looking for torque as well as overall street-able power. The car is mostly driven on the street, and the only racing it will see in my area is 1/8th mile. (I know CA sucks, thank god I'm not subject to ca emissions)
Edit: (12/31/12) Intake setup- TSP Ported Fast 92mm Intake with a PTM 95mm TB to match.Going with a 92mm rather than a 102 because of clearance issues, fitment, I can re-use my stock LS1 fuel lines, so the extra cost to run a 102 as small of a price set back as some may think it will be, would put me over budget. As the parts list grows the budget shrinks. The intakes are the same price, so re-sale of the intake for any future builds (I.E my 408) should set me up for a decent cost to upgrade.
Edit: (12/22/12) Injectors/Fuel Pump- Bosch 42lbs injectors, Fuel injection Connection sells these and claim to run 50lbs in the stock LS1 fuel rail (@LS1 pump pressure). Racetronix 255 w/ Hotwire kit with ground upgrade will be the chosen pump for me.
Edit: (12/26/12) Heads/Cam – I have changed my mind so many times but due to budget, I've purchased a set of TEA Stage 2 LS6 (799 Castings) milled to 63cc. These heads have made the cam selection very tight due to the milling, larger valves (2.04I and 1.575E), and me trying to avoid fly cutting. I have have received a vast amount of knowledge from JakeFusion and Martin @ Tick. I have come up from the two of them a cam choice of 227/235 .614" .621" 110+3 on a 107ICL with 10.5* of over lap. I can't recall the exact lobes that are being used but if you guys want to know I can find that out. The tolerances are still going to be tight, but good enough for me. My static compression with a .051 stock head gasket is 10.84:1 and dynamic compression is 8.58:1.
Edit: (12/31/12) Extra- JP Double roller timing chain (Similar to SLP, bought from SpeedInc), SLP Oil Pump, ZO6 85mm MAF with Casper harness, LS7 Lifters, New lifter trays, New water pump, ARP Head bolts, Summit Cam degree wheel kit, 98mm FTP lid, Billet Catch can, Comp cam trunion upgrade, WS6 Lower air box, Wire Mod and so on
This is my first H/C/I "package" install, and I'd love for it to all go as smooth as possible. I want the best stuff just as much as the next guy but anyone who says money is no object is so far beyond full of **** it's funny. I'm just a normal guy doing the military thing wanting my Trans Am to scream with the best of 'em. Anything I missed or any estimated numbers you want to throw out there feel free to do so.
As I continue the build on this thread, I do plan on going all out and just keeping my progress and build pics on here as well. Which means as I go if I have any questions I can put them on here and you guys can take a look at how things are coming along.
Edit: (12/22/12)- Like I've said before this is a budget build. I’m narrowing this down to oil and oil filter, to the torque wrenches I have to buy, cam degree'ing kit, including all the gaskets, parts, chemicals and lubes, tuner, and so on. I’m even going to have to tow my car to the tuner, so the trailer is going to cost money to rent. I’m just trying to make it a realistic, real world scenario build. I do appreciate all the responses and I love the feedback.
The car has 160* Thermostat, 1 7/8 Headers-Y-pipe (from TSP), Borla Adj. Cat back...so the air should move out just as good as it moves in...
(Cunningham Motorsports will be tuning the T/A)
Edit: (12/31/12) Intake setup- TSP Ported Fast 92mm Intake with a PTM 95mm TB to match.Going with a 92mm rather than a 102 because of clearance issues, fitment, I can re-use my stock LS1 fuel lines, so the extra cost to run a 102 as small of a price set back as some may think it will be, would put me over budget. As the parts list grows the budget shrinks. The intakes are the same price, so re-sale of the intake for any future builds (I.E my 408) should set me up for a decent cost to upgrade.
Edit: (12/22/12) Injectors/Fuel Pump- Bosch 42lbs injectors, Fuel injection Connection sells these and claim to run 50lbs in the stock LS1 fuel rail (@LS1 pump pressure). Racetronix 255 w/ Hotwire kit with ground upgrade will be the chosen pump for me.
Edit: (12/26/12) Heads/Cam – I have changed my mind so many times but due to budget, I've purchased a set of TEA Stage 2 LS6 (799 Castings) milled to 63cc. These heads have made the cam selection very tight due to the milling, larger valves (2.04I and 1.575E), and me trying to avoid fly cutting. I have have received a vast amount of knowledge from JakeFusion and Martin @ Tick. I have come up from the two of them a cam choice of 227/235 .614" .621" 110+3 on a 107ICL with 10.5* of over lap. I can't recall the exact lobes that are being used but if you guys want to know I can find that out. The tolerances are still going to be tight, but good enough for me. My static compression with a .051 stock head gasket is 10.84:1 and dynamic compression is 8.58:1.
Edit: (12/31/12) Extra- JP Double roller timing chain (Similar to SLP, bought from SpeedInc), SLP Oil Pump, ZO6 85mm MAF with Casper harness, LS7 Lifters, New lifter trays, New water pump, ARP Head bolts, Summit Cam degree wheel kit, 98mm FTP lid, Billet Catch can, Comp cam trunion upgrade, WS6 Lower air box, Wire Mod and so on
This is my first H/C/I "package" install, and I'd love for it to all go as smooth as possible. I want the best stuff just as much as the next guy but anyone who says money is no object is so far beyond full of **** it's funny. I'm just a normal guy doing the military thing wanting my Trans Am to scream with the best of 'em. Anything I missed or any estimated numbers you want to throw out there feel free to do so.
As I continue the build on this thread, I do plan on going all out and just keeping my progress and build pics on here as well. Which means as I go if I have any questions I can put them on here and you guys can take a look at how things are coming along.
Edit: (12/22/12)- Like I've said before this is a budget build. I’m narrowing this down to oil and oil filter, to the torque wrenches I have to buy, cam degree'ing kit, including all the gaskets, parts, chemicals and lubes, tuner, and so on. I’m even going to have to tow my car to the tuner, so the trailer is going to cost money to rent. I’m just trying to make it a realistic, real world scenario build. I do appreciate all the responses and I love the feedback.
The car has 160* Thermostat, 1 7/8 Headers-Y-pipe (from TSP), Borla Adj. Cat back...so the air should move out just as good as it moves in...
(Cunningham Motorsports will be tuning the T/A)
Last edited by FEAR LS; 01-04-2013 at 02:54 PM. Reason: 12/31/12 Update
12-10-2012, 09:31 PM
#2
I'm no expert, but 227 runners seem kinda big for a stock displacement motor looking for torque.
On a budget I would still say 102 on the intake...grind your pump, use an oe fuel rail. If you have 93 octane available, 61cc chambers with an 040 gasket is doable. I'm making 450 through an a4 and a 9" with 36lb injectors at 80% duty. 255lph pump with a hotwire.
I would and did convert to an ls6 valley with a catch can if you are bumping compression. Ymmv, good luck.
Steve
On a budget I would still say 102 on the intake...grind your pump, use an oe fuel rail. If you have 93 octane available, 61cc chambers with an 040 gasket is doable. I'm making 450 through an a4 and a 9" with 36lb injectors at 80% duty. 255lph pump with a hotwire.
I would and did convert to an ls6 valley with a catch can if you are bumping compression. Ymmv, good luck.
Steve
12-10-2012, 10:35 PM
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I'm no expert, but 227 runners seem kinda big for a stock displacement motor looking for torque.
On a budget I would still say 102 on the intake...grind your pump, use an oe fuel rail. If you have 93 octane available, 61cc chambers with an 040 gasket is doable. I'm making 450 through an a4 and a 9" with 36lb injectors at 80% duty. 255lph pump with a hotwire.
I would and did convert to an ls6 valley with a catch can if you are bumping compression. Ymmv, good luck.
Steve
On a budget I would still say 102 on the intake...grind your pump, use an oe fuel rail. If you have 93 octane available, 61cc chambers with an 040 gasket is doable. I'm making 450 through an a4 and a 9" with 36lb injectors at 80% duty. 255lph pump with a hotwire.
I would and did convert to an ls6 valley with a catch can if you are bumping compression. Ymmv, good luck.
Steve
I don't have access to 93 octane just 91 but I do have E-85.. lol
Would 61cc with an 040 gasket have any ptv issues with the cam I have listed? (Or would you only recommend doing that if I had access to 93?)
A 255lph pump with hotwire will find its way to the list.
I've heard so many mixed opinions on the ls6 valley with catch can setup, I will continue to research that. I do know with extra compression, the current crankcase setup (stock) will be tested as well.
12-10-2012, 11:54 PM
#4
I'd skip on the LS6 valley cover and just add a good Catch-can. I consider the LS6 VC an appearance modification since it didn't cut-back on the amount of oil that ended up in the intake on my engine. Smaller 210-215cc heads will be better as far as TQ, but the 227s will make more HP. I'd also look at some of these new cam grinds for Tick Performance, along with their prices on heads.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/16960543-post39.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/16960543-post39.html
12-11-2012, 12:19 AM
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I'd skip on the LS6 valley cover and just add a good Catch-can. I consider the LS6 VC an appearance modification since it didn't cut-back on the amount of oil that ended up in the intake on my engine. Smaller 210-215cc heads will be better as far as TQ, but the 227s will make more HP. I'd also look at some of these new cam grinds for Tick Performance, along with their prices on heads.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/16960543-post39.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/16960543-post39.html
I will definitely be doing one or the other, higher compression through a poor ventilation setup as is, and when oil is entering the intake, it's not a recipe for success.
Those Tick camshafts are looking good. When someone quotes a camshaft with "stupid mid-range torque", it's got to be worthwhile. I like the +3 degrees of timing.
I could set the cam up (like normal dot to dot) without having to degree the cam and it will already have three degrees of timing? (Right or ....)
12-11-2012, 12:52 AM
#6
Thanks for the response.
I will definitely be doing one or the other, higher compression through a poor ventilation setup as is, and when oil is entering the intake, it's not a recipe for success.
Those Tick camshafts are looking good. When someone quotes a camshaft with "stupid mid-range torque", it's got to be worthwhile. I like the +3 degrees of timing.
I could set the cam up (like normal dot to dot) without having to degree the cam and it will already have three degrees of timing? (Right or ....)
I will definitely be doing one or the other, higher compression through a poor ventilation setup as is, and when oil is entering the intake, it's not a recipe for success.
Those Tick camshafts are looking good. When someone quotes a camshaft with "stupid mid-range torque", it's got to be worthwhile. I like the +3 degrees of timing.
I could set the cam up (like normal dot to dot) without having to degree the cam and it will already have three degrees of timing? (Right or ....)
12-11-2012, 02:03 AM
#7
Couple of things since I'm about to pull the trigger on heads/cam as well and here is what I think:
1) Do it once and do it right so you can keep the mods if you decide to go bigger down the road. The FAST 92 is fine, but for just a little bit more money (cost of the fuel rails) you can get the 102. It makes more power and torque. Get it. Grind the water pump for it to fit or get a new LS2 pump as you do have 116k miles. Scoggin Dickey has them on sale for $110.
2) TSP v3 is a fine cam for making power, but since you're a 6-speed, you might want to consider something like what was posted up above. Tick has a 227/234 110+3 that will make a lot more torque and similar top end power to the v3, and you won't have to spin your engine nearly as hard. Better for a street car and perfect for stock gears (didn't see any gears listed). The other thing is the TSP cam has a super aggressive intake lobe. That's why it makes power. Tick uses lobes from Comp that are a little nicer but still make power (LSL/LXL). Springs will last longer and you'll have less valvetrain noise/stability issues. For a street car, I would steer clear of the LSK lobes used in the V3. TSP has access to these lobes as well and can grind you whatever you want.
3) Get an oil pump and timing chain. I recommend the Katech C5-R chain and a Melling HV 10296 pump. Run 6 quarts of oil to keep the engine from sucking the pan dry. But a good double-roller and ported LS6 will be fine as well.
4) I'd look at TFS As-Cast heads $1670 and order them from TEA or Brian Tooley Racing. They pick up pretty close to 50rwhp over LS1s stock untouched. Tooley can then hand work them and they'll walk TFS 215s for another $300 (so your decision there if that's worth another 12-15hp). Not only that, but get turned-down LS3 valves in there (much much lighter than your stock 2.00" valves and a 150 upgrade). That will allow you stability without having to run insane spring pressures. It'll also out power whatever you're currently looking at. With the lobes Tick uses on the above cam, it'll be quiet and make unbelievable power and torque. Run the .040" cometic gasket with it, and I wouldn't even mill it. You'll be fine clearance wise and make good cranking compression with the 64cc chamber and thinner gasket. If you are set on the PRCs, the PRC as cast 225s would get the nod. I think the 225s are in the same neighborhood as TFS as cast heads. The Stage 2.5s are good for the money though, but the as-cast heads are only a little more if you buy them as they ship. I don't think the PRCs come with any other options other than PM Guides for the stock rockers.
5) Stock MAF is fine. I upgraded to the FTP 104 lid and 100mm MAF to feed the 102/102 combo. The stock MAF is not a restriction until it is a restriction. If you're not at the frequency limit when it's tuned, it probably won't pick up much (maybe 5rwhp with the added airflow of the bigger inlet pipes). Get the Chrs1313 ram air to force feed the car at speed as that's more of the problem, not the inlet.
6) Lifters. I didn't see those. LS7s with new lifter trays will be passable especially with the lighter valvetrain. They'll actually operate much closer to spec. Morels still get the nod though as a lifter coming apart will destroy the cam and damage the heads. Cheap insurance.
7) Comp Trunion upgrade. Yes.
If you do the TFS heads, need the PM Guides installed for 125. So those heads would run you about 1975 out the door (without hand porting) + 379 for the cam. Pretty much in the same ballpark as the PRC 215/227 you're looking at now and provides some additional benefits over the PRC as-cast. If you want to go TSP, have them grind you a cam or use the 228R and the PRC As-Cast 225.
Another option is Advanced Induction. Send in your stock heads and Phil will weld up the chambers and fully port them. you can get a complete package (GM MLS gaskets, pushrods, custom cam, and the head work with BTR springs) for 1995. He has a 226/234 113 and 228/236 114 cam that would both be solid in the 6-speed.
1) Do it once and do it right so you can keep the mods if you decide to go bigger down the road. The FAST 92 is fine, but for just a little bit more money (cost of the fuel rails) you can get the 102. It makes more power and torque. Get it. Grind the water pump for it to fit or get a new LS2 pump as you do have 116k miles. Scoggin Dickey has them on sale for $110.
2) TSP v3 is a fine cam for making power, but since you're a 6-speed, you might want to consider something like what was posted up above. Tick has a 227/234 110+3 that will make a lot more torque and similar top end power to the v3, and you won't have to spin your engine nearly as hard. Better for a street car and perfect for stock gears (didn't see any gears listed). The other thing is the TSP cam has a super aggressive intake lobe. That's why it makes power. Tick uses lobes from Comp that are a little nicer but still make power (LSL/LXL). Springs will last longer and you'll have less valvetrain noise/stability issues. For a street car, I would steer clear of the LSK lobes used in the V3. TSP has access to these lobes as well and can grind you whatever you want.
3) Get an oil pump and timing chain. I recommend the Katech C5-R chain and a Melling HV 10296 pump. Run 6 quarts of oil to keep the engine from sucking the pan dry. But a good double-roller and ported LS6 will be fine as well.
4) I'd look at TFS As-Cast heads $1670 and order them from TEA or Brian Tooley Racing. They pick up pretty close to 50rwhp over LS1s stock untouched. Tooley can then hand work them and they'll walk TFS 215s for another $300 (so your decision there if that's worth another 12-15hp). Not only that, but get turned-down LS3 valves in there (much much lighter than your stock 2.00" valves and a 150 upgrade). That will allow you stability without having to run insane spring pressures. It'll also out power whatever you're currently looking at. With the lobes Tick uses on the above cam, it'll be quiet and make unbelievable power and torque. Run the .040" cometic gasket with it, and I wouldn't even mill it. You'll be fine clearance wise and make good cranking compression with the 64cc chamber and thinner gasket. If you are set on the PRCs, the PRC as cast 225s would get the nod. I think the 225s are in the same neighborhood as TFS as cast heads. The Stage 2.5s are good for the money though, but the as-cast heads are only a little more if you buy them as they ship. I don't think the PRCs come with any other options other than PM Guides for the stock rockers.
5) Stock MAF is fine. I upgraded to the FTP 104 lid and 100mm MAF to feed the 102/102 combo. The stock MAF is not a restriction until it is a restriction. If you're not at the frequency limit when it's tuned, it probably won't pick up much (maybe 5rwhp with the added airflow of the bigger inlet pipes). Get the Chrs1313 ram air to force feed the car at speed as that's more of the problem, not the inlet.
6) Lifters. I didn't see those. LS7s with new lifter trays will be passable especially with the lighter valvetrain. They'll actually operate much closer to spec. Morels still get the nod though as a lifter coming apart will destroy the cam and damage the heads. Cheap insurance.
7) Comp Trunion upgrade. Yes.
If you do the TFS heads, need the PM Guides installed for 125. So those heads would run you about 1975 out the door (without hand porting) + 379 for the cam. Pretty much in the same ballpark as the PRC 215/227 you're looking at now and provides some additional benefits over the PRC as-cast. If you want to go TSP, have them grind you a cam or use the 228R and the PRC As-Cast 225.
Another option is Advanced Induction. Send in your stock heads and Phil will weld up the chambers and fully port them. you can get a complete package (GM MLS gaskets, pushrods, custom cam, and the head work with BTR springs) for 1995. He has a 226/234 113 and 228/236 114 cam that would both be solid in the 6-speed.
Last edited by JakeFusion; 12-11-2012 at 02:16 AM.
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12-11-2012, 09:01 AM
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Cam specs aren't usually spot-on, that's why its recommended to degree it so you can verify the actually cam specs. Now if it was spot-on, then dot-to-dot would be +3 advance. Another option is to have the cam put on a "cam doctor" to verify the actual cam specs without having to degree it.
Couple of things since I'm about to pull the trigger on heads/cam as well and here is what I think:
1) Do it once and do it right so you can keep the mods if you decide to go bigger down the road. The FAST 92 is fine, but for just a little bit more money (cost of the fuel rails) you can get the 102. It makes more power and torque. Get it. Grind the water pump for it to fit or get a new LS2 pump as you do have 116k miles. Scoggin Dickey has them on sale for $110.
2) TSP v3 is a fine cam for making power, but since you're a 6-speed, you might want to consider something like what was posted up above. Tick has a 227/234 110+3 that will make a lot more torque and similar top end power to the v3, and you won't have to spin your engine nearly as hard. Better for a street car and perfect for stock gears (didn't see any gears listed). The other thing is the TSP cam has a super aggressive intake lobe. That's why it makes power. Tick uses lobes from Comp that are a little nicer but still make power (LSL/LXL). Springs will last longer and you'll have less valvetrain noise/stability issues. For a street car, I would steer clear of the LSK lobes used in the V3. TSP has access to these lobes as well and can grind you whatever you want.
3) Get an oil pump and timing chain. I recommend the Katech C5-R chain and a Melling HV 10296 pump. Run 6 quarts of oil to keep the engine from sucking the pan dry. But a good double-roller and ported LS6 will be fine as well.
4) I'd look at TFS As-Cast heads $1670 and order them from TEA or Brian Tooley Racing. They pick up pretty close to 50rwhp over LS1s stock untouched. Tooley can then hand work them and they'll walk TFS 215s for another $300 (so your decision there if that's worth another 12-15hp). Not only that, but get turned-down LS3 valves in there (much much lighter than your stock 2.00" valves and a 150 upgrade). That will allow you stability without having to run insane spring pressures. It'll also out power whatever you're currently looking at. With the lobes Tick uses on the above cam, it'll be quiet and make unbelievable power and torque. Run the .040" cometic gasket with it, and I wouldn't even mill it. You'll be fine clearance wise and make good cranking compression with the 64cc chamber and thinner gasket. If you are set on the PRCs, the PRC as cast 225s would get the nod. I think the 225s are in the same neighborhood as TFS as cast heads. The Stage 2.5s are good for the money though, but the as-cast heads are only a little more if you buy them as they ship. I don't think the PRCs come with any other options other than PM Guides for the stock rockers.
5) Stock MAF is fine. I upgraded to the FTP 104 lid and 100mm MAF to feed the 102/102 combo. The stock MAF is not a restriction until it is a restriction. If you're not at the frequency limit when it's tuned, it probably won't pick up much (maybe 5rwhp with the added airflow of the bigger inlet pipes). Get the Chrs1313 ram air to force feed the car at speed as that's more of the problem, not the inlet.
6) Lifters. I didn't see those. LS7s with new lifter trays will be passable especially with the lighter valvetrain. They'll actually operate much closer to spec. Morels still get the nod though as a lifter coming apart will destroy the cam and damage the heads. Cheap insurance.
7) Comp Trunion upgrade. Yes.
If you do the TFS heads, need the PM Guides installed for 125. So those heads would run you about 1975 out the door (without hand porting) + 379 for the cam. Pretty much in the same ballpark as the PRC 215/227 you're looking at now and provides some additional benefits over the PRC as-cast. If you want to go TSP, have them grind you a cam or use the 228R and the PRC As-Cast 225.
Another option is Advanced Induction. Send in your stock heads and Phil will weld up the chambers and fully port them. you can get a complete package (GM MLS gaskets, pushrods, custom cam, and the head work with BTR springs) for 1995. He has a 226/234 113 and 228/236 114 cam that would both be solid in the 6-speed.
1) Do it once and do it right so you can keep the mods if you decide to go bigger down the road. The FAST 92 is fine, but for just a little bit more money (cost of the fuel rails) you can get the 102. It makes more power and torque. Get it. Grind the water pump for it to fit or get a new LS2 pump as you do have 116k miles. Scoggin Dickey has them on sale for $110.
2) TSP v3 is a fine cam for making power, but since you're a 6-speed, you might want to consider something like what was posted up above. Tick has a 227/234 110+3 that will make a lot more torque and similar top end power to the v3, and you won't have to spin your engine nearly as hard. Better for a street car and perfect for stock gears (didn't see any gears listed). The other thing is the TSP cam has a super aggressive intake lobe. That's why it makes power. Tick uses lobes from Comp that are a little nicer but still make power (LSL/LXL). Springs will last longer and you'll have less valvetrain noise/stability issues. For a street car, I would steer clear of the LSK lobes used in the V3. TSP has access to these lobes as well and can grind you whatever you want.
3) Get an oil pump and timing chain. I recommend the Katech C5-R chain and a Melling HV 10296 pump. Run 6 quarts of oil to keep the engine from sucking the pan dry. But a good double-roller and ported LS6 will be fine as well.
4) I'd look at TFS As-Cast heads $1670 and order them from TEA or Brian Tooley Racing. They pick up pretty close to 50rwhp over LS1s stock untouched. Tooley can then hand work them and they'll walk TFS 215s for another $300 (so your decision there if that's worth another 12-15hp). Not only that, but get turned-down LS3 valves in there (much much lighter than your stock 2.00" valves and a 150 upgrade). That will allow you stability without having to run insane spring pressures. It'll also out power whatever you're currently looking at. With the lobes Tick uses on the above cam, it'll be quiet and make unbelievable power and torque. Run the .040" cometic gasket with it, and I wouldn't even mill it. You'll be fine clearance wise and make good cranking compression with the 64cc chamber and thinner gasket. If you are set on the PRCs, the PRC as cast 225s would get the nod. I think the 225s are in the same neighborhood as TFS as cast heads. The Stage 2.5s are good for the money though, but the as-cast heads are only a little more if you buy them as they ship. I don't think the PRCs come with any other options other than PM Guides for the stock rockers.
5) Stock MAF is fine. I upgraded to the FTP 104 lid and 100mm MAF to feed the 102/102 combo. The stock MAF is not a restriction until it is a restriction. If you're not at the frequency limit when it's tuned, it probably won't pick up much (maybe 5rwhp with the added airflow of the bigger inlet pipes). Get the Chrs1313 ram air to force feed the car at speed as that's more of the problem, not the inlet.
6) Lifters. I didn't see those. LS7s with new lifter trays will be passable especially with the lighter valvetrain. They'll actually operate much closer to spec. Morels still get the nod though as a lifter coming apart will destroy the cam and damage the heads. Cheap insurance.
7) Comp Trunion upgrade. Yes.
If you do the TFS heads, need the PM Guides installed for 125. So those heads would run you about 1975 out the door (without hand porting) + 379 for the cam. Pretty much in the same ballpark as the PRC 215/227 you're looking at now and provides some additional benefits over the PRC as-cast. If you want to go TSP, have them grind you a cam or use the 228R and the PRC As-Cast 225.
Another option is Advanced Induction. Send in your stock heads and Phil will weld up the chambers and fully port them. you can get a complete package (GM MLS gaskets, pushrods, custom cam, and the head work with BTR springs) for 1995. He has a 226/234 113 and 228/236 114 cam that would both be solid in the 6-speed.
2. Tick or A custom grind from TSP will be the way I go. I seen the agressive lobes TSP had on the V3 but didn't pay to much attention to it. I'm liking the timing set into the cam, more and more. I guess the route I choose will depend on the heads.
3. I will be getting the double roller and oil pump, but will probably stick with what I've chosen. (You noted some quality stuff)
4. You've got my attention with the TFS heads. I will make a phone call and continue to research them.
5. I'll check out the ram air, and I figured I wouldn't see any issues with stock maf. My tuner will let me know, if anything it will be the last mod.
6. I had been thinking lately as the time gets closer to the purchase that an upgraded lifter would be the way to go. I've heard good success stories with the ls7's but I will check into the Morels.
I really appreciate the info, I've gone blind searching and searching for better ways to do this and that. That's why I broke down and started my own thread.
(Any power numbers you'd feel comfortable throwing out there with those different setups..)
12-11-2012, 10:15 AM
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I am building my first ls1, swapping over from the lt generation and have been reading countless threads, trying to learn as much as i can about them. Some SERIOUS performance numbers to say the least! But anyway i REALLY like the new line of cams coming out of TICK. i am leaning in the direction of AI to port the heads with either a custom grind or AI with a TICK 227/234 110+3 that i think would be a serious combo for the street. AI says 460-480 rwhp with there port job and cam with alot of power under the curve...i may be new at this engine series but they claim great power at a really really good price! But call me a noob, what do i know. Just gonna keep reading...good luck!
12-11-2012, 11:26 AM
#10
AI does good work with stock castings. Another option for anyone looking might be the Dart 205s worked by AI. They are $1845 with BTR Platinum springs and Manley backcut stainless valves. Only a little more than the TFS or PRC As Cast options, but are fully CNC ported and include new aftermarket castings as well.
I haven't seen anybody run them, but with the smaller valves, I have to believe the velocity is there. The flow charts on AI's site shows it besting the LS6 226cc option by 7-9cfm across the board with a smaller port. Probably good for 10HP over the LS6 heads, which are already good for 50-60+rwhp over LS1 heads depending on the mill. Pretty insane.
I haven't seen anybody run them, but with the smaller valves, I have to believe the velocity is there. The flow charts on AI's site shows it besting the LS6 226cc option by 7-9cfm across the board with a smaller port. Probably good for 10HP over the LS6 heads, which are already good for 50-60+rwhp over LS1 heads depending on the mill. Pretty insane.
12-11-2012, 11:29 AM
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I am building my first ls1, swapping over from the lt generation and have been reading countless threads, trying to learn as much as i can about them. Some SERIOUS performance numbers to say the least! But anyway i REALLY like the new line of cams coming out of TICK. i am leaning in the direction of AI to port the heads with either a custom grind or AI with a TICK 227/234 110+3 that i think would be a serious combo for the street. AI says 460-480 rwhp with there port job and cam with alot of power under the curve...i may be new at this engine series but they claim great power at a really really good price! But call me a noob, what do i know. Just gonna keep reading...good luck!
There has been a lot of good info passed in this thread so far. I have searched and searched countless hours and just have seemed to blind myself on which ways to go. That’s why I figured I would see what others had to say on my build thoughts.
Tick does seem to have an "elite" cam setup for torque enthusiast such as myself...
AI has crossed my mind a few times, but TSP has always stuck for some reason, and now that I've heard of a few more avenues I will be seeing what they have to offer as well.
Thanks for the encouragement, I'm with you, I'm not an advanced engine builder. I would like to be, but I'm more of an engine assembler at this point.
As we all know most can assemble engines, it's building power plants that separate the two.
12-11-2012, 09:07 PM
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Quick question..
Do any of you have the part numbers for the ls7 lifters and the ls2 water pump. I can have my Dad (GM Tech) pick me up a set no cost to me. He will also be sending the lifter trays as well, so a small score for me. Free parts are always a plus.
I ask because the research I have done says the replacement water pump for an 00' Trans Am and 06' GTO (LS2) have the same part numbers. As well as the lifters, I've heard you actually would have a very difficult time finding a true set of LS1 lifters anymore.
I would like to know some info to smooth up the install on the FAST 102. Clearing the 102TB FAST or NW should not be an issue as long as the LS2(replacement) water pump is installed. Correct?
So all I need to tell my Dad is I need replacement lifters and water pump for my car and I'm good to go?
Do any of you have the part numbers for the ls7 lifters and the ls2 water pump. I can have my Dad (GM Tech) pick me up a set no cost to me. He will also be sending the lifter trays as well, so a small score for me. Free parts are always a plus.
I ask because the research I have done says the replacement water pump for an 00' Trans Am and 06' GTO (LS2) have the same part numbers. As well as the lifters, I've heard you actually would have a very difficult time finding a true set of LS1 lifters anymore.
I would like to know some info to smooth up the install on the FAST 102. Clearing the 102TB FAST or NW should not be an issue as long as the LS2(replacement) water pump is installed. Correct?
So all I need to tell my Dad is I need replacement lifters and water pump for my car and I'm good to go?
12-12-2012, 07:19 AM
#15
Quick question..
Do any of you have the part numbers for the ls7 lifters and the ls2 water pump. I can have my Dad (GM Tech) pick me up a set no cost to me. He will also be sending the lifter trays as well, so a small score for me. Free parts are always a plus.
I ask because the research I have done says the replacement water pump for an 00' Trans Am and 06' GTO (LS2) have the same part numbers. As well as the lifters, I've heard you actually would have a very difficult time finding a true set of LS1 lifters anymore.
I would like to know some info to smooth up the install on the FAST 102. Clearing the 102TB FAST or NW should not be an issue as long as the LS2(replacement) water pump is installed. Correct?
So all I need to tell my Dad is I need replacement lifters and water pump for my car and I'm good to go?
Do any of you have the part numbers for the ls7 lifters and the ls2 water pump. I can have my Dad (GM Tech) pick me up a set no cost to me. He will also be sending the lifter trays as well, so a small score for me. Free parts are always a plus.
I ask because the research I have done says the replacement water pump for an 00' Trans Am and 06' GTO (LS2) have the same part numbers. As well as the lifters, I've heard you actually would have a very difficult time finding a true set of LS1 lifters anymore.
I would like to know some info to smooth up the install on the FAST 102. Clearing the 102TB FAST or NW should not be an issue as long as the LS2(replacement) water pump is installed. Correct?
So all I need to tell my Dad is I need replacement lifters and water pump for my car and I'm good to go?
LS7 lifters: 12499225 trays: 12595365
12-12-2012, 08:36 AM
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Real quick before I'm off to work, I shouldn't have any clearance issues (intake or throttle body) running that water pump right? I've heard mixed reviews.
Any vendors or websites that offer that racetronix fuel pump w/hotwire kit at a good price?
12-12-2012, 04:20 PM
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Cam specs aren't usually spot-on, that's why its recommended to degree it so you can verify the actually cam specs. Now if it was spot-on, then dot-to-dot would be +3 advance. Another option is to have the cam put on a "cam doctor" to verify the actual cam specs without having to degree it.
12-12-2012, 08:43 PM
#20
TSP 5.3 heads FTW. Hands down the best budget head on the market. I would not change them for anything. The rest of your questions, I just don't have time for, but I did scan something about the FAST 92 vs. 102. Everyone is all about running these ridiculous intakes recently. My buddy made 462WHP with a decent set of heads, 228/232 cam, and a FAST 78. A FAST 92 flows plenty enough. I have even seen 383 LS1 guys on here complain about the 102 being too large and would have rather than the 92. Save your money and the hassle and just run the 92.