JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Yup. Overlap would be 10 degrees tho. For me that's a bit much. Folks talk about driving bigger cams with more overlap but to me 10 degrees is too much. I prefer 4 degrees and less. You could get away with a 113+2 and it'd drive better and give up
very little power down low and make more power above 5k. And it'd work better with the 60cc chambers. Btw MLS gaskets are .051" FWIW.

If you made drivability a concern at all Ed will probably recommend it that way. Remember the super tight ICLs are done to boost dynamic compression on stock heads with 10.1:1 CR. You have over 11.3:1 now. You can run a later intake valve closing point and still make torque. You'll make just as much power either way but with nicer street manners.

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

I have a much more methodical method of devising which way to go with camshafts than what is the biggest that will fit, ask Jake Fusion he can tell ya....that said I understand what you're trying to do and it's very common.

If it were mine, and I had the go ahead on the cam events, with what you have to work with it would go as follows:

277/286@.006"
227/234@.050"
151/155@.200"
112LSA 110ICL 114ECL

227/234 .614"/.612" 112+2

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

You think that cam would clear the AFR 60cc heads, using the GM MLS gaskets? With that cam, the AFR heads, LS6 intake, long tubes, Lid, true duals and it being a M6, what type of numbers would you expect it to make? Also, if I decide to have you cut this cam for me, what would the cost be and what lobes would they be?

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

It would clear. You'd have about .050" of intake clearance. Which is a little tight, but it'd work. But, you'd be at 8.8:1 DCR, which is too high for 93 with a .051" gasket. Drop the 60cc to 62cc and you'd drop to 8.56:1 and be fine on 93 with that quench. Plus, you'd pick up another .012" of clearance. All would be better for a street car.

I'd expect you to be in the 450/420 range.

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

I personally think he'll be short of 450/420 with that cam and intake....

RonSSNova

iTrader: (3)

I am at 61cc. Cam is 226/230 .608/.597 114 +3. I degreed it.
Also using the GM MLS.
PTV was .075" on the intake.

On our 92 octane E10, I can't run more than 22 deg of timing or it detonates. I will be adding water meth to eliminate this and it's N/A.

Mr. Mamo says these heads don't like more than 4 deg split in dur In to Exh.

Why do you want 110-112 lobe sep?

Between the max cam that will "fit" and one that fits comfortably, you aren't looking at a ton of hp diff. I'd bet less than 10. And if you get the largest that someone "says" will fit, and it doesn't, you will be pissed.

Are you going to race the car or just looking for RWHP numbers to impress?

Curious why one head has glass beaded chambers? I'd be polishing those to help keep the carbon from sticking.

I am an A4 and have no dyno numbers.

Ron

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

It would clear and work, but as others said a little on the tighter side. 399.99 is what we charge for a cam like that, and that is a LSL/LXL combination.
I've had people run 8.7:1-8.9:1 on 93 with no issues. Total timing ended up around 24-26 degrees though, still made great power. Tighter quench was helpful in doing so with the reduced amount of ignition timing that could be run.
I understand the thought process behind it and it's a later opening exhaust valve event, but the 4 degree duration split thing is what gets me. I could get to the same events 3-4 different ways that would be what most consider "ideal" for AFR heads, and 2 of them would have more than 4 degree splits. Look at the cam Dr. Whigham has with his AFR heads, nearly the same cam and with a 227 degree intake lobe, running out of fuel and slipping clutch made over 450rwhp and 410rwtq. I guess in my opinion I feel like you can get to the final destination in more ways than one.

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

Just for comparison gents, my cam is a 229/236 .631.631 112+2

Ed spec'd my cam for 241's and an LS6 intake, as that's exactly what I had at the time. I'm HIGHLY curious what it would do had the cam been spec'd specifucally FOR my AFR's and FAST 92/92

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

I think it's just fine for what you've got

Although that grind we talked about would be very interesting to see what it would do...

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

Merry Christamas, all!!

It's definitely piqued my interest, Martin. I gotta get this clutch knocked out though. Unfortunately I think I may miss the sale....

Sorry for the thread hijack. Albeit brief, but still

3rdCoastPowerSports

iTrader: (5)

still havent got to see any pics of the ports

35th SS

iTrader: (2)

intake and exhaust.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

I don't doubt it. I just would prefer to run a .040" gasket with that much compression. I've seen people run more compression and less total timing and make more power.

Why?

You don't need as much timing if the dynamic compression is that high. It helps burn the fuel more completely without the need for additional spark advance.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

The car is basically a weekend warrior that I'll race on the street and some at the track. I e-mailed Ed today, so I'll see what he suggests.

How should I go about polishing the chambers? Would using something like Flitz pre-alluminum spray to get off the carbon and the polishing with Adams metal polish work? If not, what would you suggest?

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

I thought the general concensus was to have the chambers a bit "rough" to promote airflow? Whay polish them smooth? That hurts flow.

I say just get the majority of the carbon off. That's what I did.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

There really isn't any carbon on any of the cc chambers at all; just a little bit in the exhaust ports. The intake ports are clean as a whistle. I'll post up some pics of the intake and exhaust ports sometime today. I took a bunch last night.

Dr. Whigham - did you take any pics of your AFR heads prior to installing them? If so, can you post them up?

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

Let me dig brother. I *think* I did....

A.R. Shale Targa

iTrader: (2)

CNC cutters leave a slight roughness which in the intake port helps prevent
what is called boundary layer dropout. Infinitesmally close to the cutter marks
an airflow vortex is created to promote fuel atomization....no longer an issue
with direct injection as the port only flows air. This is why cylinder head comp
anies have been using wet flow technology for years to study where in the
port the colored dye sticks to the walls (boundary layer dropout).
As Ron stated...I also wonder why the one head has bead blasted chambers
and the other looks somewhat polished ???? Most of Mamo's builds have the
chambers not only chrome-like smooth but equally important the edges of the
chambers are chamferred after the fresh surface cut. This should always be
done as the edges will heat up and could lead to detonation. I suspect this
combo will make great power with only 23-24 deg of timing. I think Martin's
cam suggestion is RIGHT-ON, but the one unknown variable here is what cc
the heads are at...how much have they been milled AND were they each mill
ed the same amount....something you just never know with used heads.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Here are some pics of the intake and exhaust ports.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

What would the effects be if the heads are not the same, in regards to "cc" size. For instance, one is at 60cc and the other head is at 59.5cc. How would that effect power, torque and overall how well the car drives. I am going to get the heads measured; my builder has the tools to do it at his shop. I just need to find the time to get them into him when he's available.

Another question for you. Lets say the heads do measure in at 60cc, would it be beneficial to have them milled again for trueness? If so, what is the least amount I can take off?