Need help on first build
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 2
From: Odessa, TX
Need help on first build I just picked up a 6.0 not sure if it's a 9 or 4 I'll find out soon.
I want to rebuild it but not a stock rebuild. I will slowly buy parts as money allows.
What I need help with is..
Pistons - forged but no idea which
Rods - forged but no idea which
Crank - stock
Fuel system - stock unless recommended change
Oil pump - ported but which one
Bearings - idk which I just want badass ones
Gaskets - stock felpro
Cam - was planning a 228r or el torro (230/230) for my LS1 until I found my 6.0.
Heads - it came with 317s and I have 241s I can sell
I wouldn't mind going ls3 top end IF it will be worth the swap vs ported 317s
Goals - nothing specific but I would like to break 400whp
Background on car:
It's 98% street 2% highway. No track time ever. It's my dd so driveability is IMPORTANT!
01 z28 a4 stock trans for now.
ls6 manifold
3.23s
1 3/4 headers
3" ORY
3" catback
frost tune
lid
Please feel free to recommend brands and vendors to get parts from or add to the list if I'm missing something.
I want to rebuild it but not a stock rebuild. I will slowly buy parts as money allows.
What I need help with is..
Pistons - forged but no idea which
Rods - forged but no idea which
Crank - stock
Fuel system - stock unless recommended change
Oil pump - ported but which one
Bearings - idk which I just want badass ones
Gaskets - stock felpro
Cam - was planning a 228r or el torro (230/230) for my LS1 until I found my 6.0.
Heads - it came with 317s and I have 241s I can sell
I wouldn't mind going ls3 top end IF it will be worth the swap vs ported 317s
Goals - nothing specific but I would like to break 400whp
Background on car:
It's 98% street 2% highway. No track time ever. It's my dd so driveability is IMPORTANT!
01 z28 a4 stock trans for now.
ls6 manifold
3.23s
1 3/4 headers
3" ORY
3" catback
frost tune
lid
Please feel free to recommend brands and vendors to get parts from or add to the list if I'm missing something.
Last edited by 14k; Dec 28, 2012 at 09:01 PM.
Pshh 400whp is a breeze
243 heads, ported, milled
Ls6 oil pump
Weisco, eagle, callies etc for rods and pistons
Upgrade the fuel pump and ls3 injectors
As for a cam good luck, theres tons of them.
243 heads, ported, milled
Ls6 oil pump
Weisco, eagle, callies etc for rods and pistons
Upgrade the fuel pump and ls3 injectors
As for a cam good luck, theres tons of them.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 2
From: Odessa, TX
What's the benefit of ported 243 vs ported 317s?
Ported ls6 oil pump?
I know the brands but don't know which to buy there's so many different sizes.
Fuel pump racetronix/Hotwire? Or walbro255?
What's needed to run ls3 injectors? Can I use my ls1 fuel rail? Are adapters needed to plug into the harness for the ls3 injectors. nevermind I found the harness adapters
Would a 228r be a waste of time for a very mild 6.0 build?
Ported ls6 oil pump?
I know the brands but don't know which to buy there's so many different sizes.
Fuel pump racetronix/Hotwire? Or walbro255?
What's needed to run ls3 injectors? Can I use my ls1 fuel rail? Are adapters needed to plug into the harness for the ls3 injectors. nevermind I found the harness adapters
Would a 228r be a waste of time for a very mild 6.0 build?
Last edited by 14k; Dec 28, 2012 at 09:47 PM.
The 243's have a smaller chamber. To get 317's down to the 243's sized chamber requires pretty good milling. Milling them that much hurts flow in the chamber slightly.
For your build and power goals, use the 317's and mill them accordingly to get your desired compression. They have all the same ports as the 243's and flow almost identical.
For your build and power goals, use the 317's and mill them accordingly to get your desired compression. They have all the same ports as the 243's and flow almost identical.
1cc = about .0065-.007 milled.
Both flow nearly identical in stock form. Once you mill the 317's down to match the 243's, the 317's will flow slightly less. But...it will save you close to 500 bucks.
Either way, you will want to have either set checked out by a machine shop. A good engine building machine shop can cc the chambers and mill your 317's accordingly. Just figure out what compression ratio you want and what cc chamber it will require and let the shop do the rest.
Both flow nearly identical in stock form. Once you mill the 317's down to match the 243's, the 317's will flow slightly less. But...it will save you close to 500 bucks.
Either way, you will want to have either set checked out by a machine shop. A good engine building machine shop can cc the chambers and mill your 317's accordingly. Just figure out what compression ratio you want and what cc chamber it will require and let the shop do the rest.
Do you really want to waste money on forged rods and pistons for a 400whp engine? Believe me, it's not necessary at all. I wouldn't even recommend wasting time milling the 317's, the 241's are more than adequate with a little bit of work.
As far as "badass" bearings, coated ACL's are pretty legit. You can run a coated bearing a little tighter and if something bad happens, the coated gets wiped and the bearing stays intact, as does the rest of the engine.
As far as oil pumps go, take your pick. They're almost all within $20-30 of each other and the porting is nothing Forest Gump can't do with a dremel, and for what you are doing there really isn't much of an advantage to running one over the other. My advice though is to stay with the blue spring, not the high pressure red spring.
As far as "badass" bearings, coated ACL's are pretty legit. You can run a coated bearing a little tighter and if something bad happens, the coated gets wiped and the bearing stays intact, as does the rest of the engine.
As far as oil pumps go, take your pick. They're almost all within $20-30 of each other and the porting is nothing Forest Gump can't do with a dremel, and for what you are doing there really isn't much of an advantage to running one over the other. My advice though is to stay with the blue spring, not the high pressure red spring.
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If you are putting pistons in the 4 or 9 doesn't matter, that is the difference between them dished vs flat piston.
Far as heads before milling the everliving hell out of the 317s I would just get them ported by someone like AI who offers the option of welding up the 317 chamber for more compression after that and the CNC work it is exactly the same as their ported 243. They can supply a cam too.
Then again 400rwhp is a lot easier to hit than all that.
Far as heads before milling the everliving hell out of the 317s I would just get them ported by someone like AI who offers the option of welding up the 317 chamber for more compression after that and the CNC work it is exactly the same as their ported 243. They can supply a cam too.
Then again 400rwhp is a lot easier to hit than all that.
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Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: Northeast Georgia
Is the motor you picked up definitely bad or what? If it was a running engine, I'd just throw a cam in it and mill the 317s a little (lq9 has a half point higher CR so it would require less) to get about 10.5:1 CR and call it a day. Through headers that would make 400whp.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 2
From: Odessa, TX
It was running but it's taken apart now. I just want a long running engine with maybe doggin about 4 days out of a month. I don't want to cut corners either. I want forged incase I plan to go further later on.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 1
From: South Dakota
you sir are incorrect. The 6.0L pistons were all flat tops, but the ones used for the 6.0L LQ9 had a moly coating on the skirts and a thermal barrier on the top.
Maybe something changed over the years but you are the ONLY person I have ever seen make such a claim. Everything else I have seen says LQ4 was dished and LQ9 was flat top.
They both have 317 heads so if the pistons are the same how do you explain the different compression ratio?
Edit:
Did some "googling" and it seems the incorrect info about "all 6.0l engines being flat top" comes from one article.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...all_block.aspx
Everything else I am seeing says LQ4 was 9.4 or 9.5:1 and the LQ9 10:1 compression.
Last edited by 96capricemgr; Dec 29, 2012 at 05:09 PM.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 1
From: South Dakota
Maybe something changed over the years but you are the ONLY person I have ever seen make such a claim. Everything else I have seen says LQ4 was dished and LQ9 was flat top.
They both have 317 heads so if the pistons are the same how do you explain the different compression ratio?
Edit:
Did some "googling" and it seems the incorrect info about "all 6.0l engines being flat top" comes from one article.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...all_block.aspx
Everything else I am seeing says LQ4 was 9.4 or 9.5:1 and the LQ9 10:1 compression.
They both have 317 heads so if the pistons are the same how do you explain the different compression ratio?
Edit:
Did some "googling" and it seems the incorrect info about "all 6.0l engines being flat top" comes from one article.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...all_block.aspx
Everything else I am seeing says LQ4 was 9.4 or 9.5:1 and the LQ9 10:1 compression.
Different compression ratio: Whats cheaper, swapping 8 pistons or running a thinner head gasket?
Then you didn't "google" hard enought, maybe try BING?
heres your 2nd
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...SPrimer/Part2/
technically I'm not the "ONLY" one since all I did was take someone elses info and post it
Different compression ratio: Whats cheaper, swapping 8 pistons or running a thinner head gasket?
Then you didn't "google" hard enought, maybe try BING?
heres your 2nd
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...SPrimer/Part2/
Different compression ratio: Whats cheaper, swapping 8 pistons or running a thinner head gasket?
Then you didn't "google" hard enought, maybe try BING?
heres your 2nd
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...SPrimer/Part2/
technically I'm not the "ONLY" one since all I did was take someone elses info and post it
Different compression ratio: Whats cheaper, swapping 8 pistons or running a thinner head gasket?
Then you didn't "google" hard enought, maybe try BING?
heres your 2nd
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...SPrimer/Part2/
Different compression ratio: Whats cheaper, swapping 8 pistons or running a thinner head gasket?
Then you didn't "google" hard enought, maybe try BING?
heres your 2nd
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...SPrimer/Part2/
Quote from your link.
The 6.0L LQ9 is a more powerful evolution of the LQ4, developed for Cadillac's luxury sport utility vehicles. It features increased power output achieved primarily through the use of LQ9-specific: flat-top pistons, rods, crank, and beefier pushrods that increase the compression ratio from 9.4:1 (for the LQ4) to 10.0:1.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 2
From: Odessa, TX
Forgive the dirt. I haven't cleaned it yet.
Only cylinder with scratches. Can't feel them with my finger.
I didn't expect 317s to be so light!
I'm still open to suggestions guys. No parts have been ordered until I'm 100% sure the way I want to go.
Only cylinder with scratches. Can't feel them with my finger.
I didn't expect 317s to be so light!
I'm still open to suggestions guys. No parts have been ordered until I'm 100% sure the way I want to go.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 2
From: Odessa, TX
I'm looking for stock rocker arms and stands. But I don't want to use used internals. Can't I just get used stock rocker arms and do the trunioun (spelling?) upgrade and theyll be good as new?
Maybe something changed over the years but you are the ONLY person I have ever seen make such a claim. Everything else I have seen says LQ4 was dished and LQ9 was flat top.
They both have 317 heads so if the pistons are the same how do you explain the different compression ratio?
Edit:
Did some "googling" and it seems the incorrect info about "all 6.0l engines being flat top" comes from one article.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...all_block.aspx
Everything else I am seeing says LQ4 was 9.4 or 9.5:1 and the LQ9 10:1 compression.
They both have 317 heads so if the pistons are the same how do you explain the different compression ratio?
Edit:
Did some "googling" and it seems the incorrect info about "all 6.0l engines being flat top" comes from one article.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...all_block.aspx
Everything else I am seeing says LQ4 was 9.4 or 9.5:1 and the LQ9 10:1 compression.
The LQ4 has an -8cc dish in it.
The LQ9 is a Flat top piston that is shared with the LS2 motor.
The Moly skirt coating was first introduced to the LQ9 engines in 2002 and became standard on all LS based engines in 2003. They never had a thermal coating on the tops of the pistons. I don't believe any Factory GM piston Ever had a thermal coating on the top. If it did maybe I was a supercharged application.
To the Other guy that Thinks you were wrong.
The Engine builder article shows the rods lengths listed as 6.096 instead of 6.098.
It also says they used Beefier Push rods in the LQ9... IIRC GM only has 1 push rod for all the Gen 3 engines. GM# 10238852
The Pirate 4x4 shows the L33 as being available in 2003.
The LM4 was 2003-2004 only and was available in different model vehicles With Vin code P
2003–2004 Chevrolet SSR
2003–2004 Chevrolet TrailBlazer EXT
2003–2004 Isuzu Ascender
2004 GMC Envoy XL
2004 Buick Rainier
The L33 was 2005 - 2007 and was only available in the Silverado Extended cab with Vin code B
The LM4 aluminum 5.3 has a different casting number on the block then the L33 engines. I am not sure of the other differences between the 2, But They were Different enough for Gm to give them 2 separate RPO codes and different Vin designations in addition to the separate Block casting numbers.
Pirate also list all the Cam shafts as billet steel which is also false. Any one who has ever looked at a factory cam from one of these engines can clearly see its cast and machined.
Any way I think you get the Idea of there being a lot of bad info out there.